Pyrodex More Corrosive Than Black?

[PeteDavis]

Everyone I know that jumped on the pyrodex bandwagon in the 1980's now has trashed bores. Is this a cleaning issue or is pyrodex more corrosive than black?

PD (your severely twisted appalachian seventh cousin)

 

[azmntman]

Ive used Pyrodex since 80's and no issues but I clean and we have No Humidity.

I did sell a gun to a guy 2 yrs ago, he called wanting some tips (newbie) as he said he couldn't hit anything anymore?? Met up with him and he had not cleaned his barrel in 2 years so I told him to clean and try again. Been a month and no calls so maybe his barrel OK? I will follow up and post.

 

[galamb]

The chemists can jump in on the "corrosiveness" of the concoction - I would think it's more of a cleaning issue.

Pyro, 777, Shocky's and the rest are marketed as "less fouling".

I believe that leads to complacency amongst owners/users and the use of the "subs" is far more prevalent with shooters who rarely shoot their rifles - often only see daylight during special seasons.

(not trying to lump everyone in that basket, but I don't know a single special season hunter whether shooting an inline or sidelock that shoots real black)

Hey, I got 4 wheel drive, airbags and ABS - that means I can drive 40 over the speed limit during an ice storm, right??? (same attitude with the subs by the uninformed)

 

[dcalef3]

I think this a cleaning, or lack of cleaning issue. ALL bp and the subs are corrosive if left for extended time without cleaning. Good cleaning and lube after and this could of been prevented. I personally dont like pyrodex, i shoot goex. Not sure if its less corrosive but it is a lot easier to clean and less fouling. The best bp sub i ever used was black mag but cant find it anymore.

 

[Wes/Tex]

My personal take is that with all the big talk a bout how Pyrodex didn't corrode like black powder lead many to think that it wasn't necessary to clean as often or at all. I remember all kinds of claims or counter-claims about it. All sorts of silly ideas made the rounds and the result was a lot a damaged guns. The synthetics do not act like black powder but all can cause bore damage if not thoroughly cleaned out as soon after shooting as possible.

 

[necchi]

Myth.
What is corrosive is not cleaning properly with any BP or any SUB.

 

[BrownBear]

Myth.
What is corrosive is not cleaning properly with any BP or any SUB.

Agreed. But having used a lot of Pyro over the years (as well as black), I notice the Pyro is a lot more cranky about deciding what clean is, particularly in the edges of the grooves of a bore. It seems to stick there a little harder than BP fouling, and if your cleaning job isn't up to snuff, you got problems. As a rule of thumb, I always run a patch down the bore a few days after a Pyro cleaning. Teaches you real quick how clean "clean" is.

In contrast, I find BP lots easier to get clean enough than Pyro. Same patch test after a few days always comes back clean, even as I have to work less hard to get it that way.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The others have nailed it. This is a cleaning issue. I have done some writing and marketing in the past and often catch 'qualifiers' in ads that make what is said something other than fact.
e.g. When I first tested pre-marekt Pyrodex for them in the early 1970s I noticed the claim that "it does not corrode like black powder". The key (trick) word there is "like". They don't deny it corrodes but, in reality, it corrodes in a manner different than black powder.
Clean yer guns.
BTW, that was the first and last time I ever used Pyrodex.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Folks panic at the mere sound of the word 'corrosive'. Whether it be from blackpowder or sub residues or corrosive primer residue for other ammo, the term corrosive induces fear to the uninformed.

For anything corrosive, my rule of thumb is to never let the sun rise on my firearms the day following use of black powder or pyrodex, or any of that other stuff.

The higher the humidity, the quicker an hygroscopic corrosive residue will absorb water and wreak its' havoc.

A simple precaution if you live in high humidity areas, or otherwise need more time to reach the hot water bucket: Mop out the bore with wet patches. I use a mix of 1/3 GoJo (without Pumice) to 2/3 water, plus a couple of drops of dish detergent. I use this mix between shots to mop out a bore, and then as a preclean before leaving the range. I follow up with some WWI vintage GI bore cleaner, but almost any vile-smelling cresote or diesel-laden elixir will work - the goal is to remove the caked on fouling, then coat the bore and metal with oil or anything that will keep moisture and oxygen away from the small amount of remaining residue.

Anyone telling you about how their guns corroded away because of Pyrodex, Black Powder, or any of that other stuff is a lazy slacker who neglected to clean up in a reasonable time, and is otherwise full of :hmm: [digested food-residue].

 

[mooman76]

Yes it is more corrosive and yes it is a cleaning issue. Someone here or another board did some tests with photos. they burned Pyro and black on some metal and left it. They pyro corroded quicker and worse leaving pitted metal in just a few days.
Either way you need to clean right away, BP or subs. I also have used pyrodex for 30 years and have had no issues but I clean my guns same day I shoot them.

 

[Patocazador]

I bought a couple of jugs of Pyrodex P and RS. I found out that black powder was more reliable for ignition and Pyro was more corrosive so I switched right back to BP.
About 18 years later, I couldn't find BP and had to shoot the Pyrodex. It had clumped up into rocks and had lost its oomph. I put it in the garden as someone suggested. I wouldn't buy it again unless everything else was off the market .... Nope, I won't even buy it then. I'll make my own BP first.

 

[rodwha]

Here is that thread:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281879/fromsearch/1/tp/1/


Pyrodex certainly did a number on the metal compared to black, but notice how even after 4 days in the garage the Triple 7 didn't do much of anything to it? It's made me curious about a prolonged testing of that powder.

 

[coloradoclyde]

More Corrosive?....NO!
More Hygroscopic?....YES!
When cleaned with WD-40..makes nice rust.
Trashed bore = operator error.
It actually takes a lot to "trash" a bore.

 

[coloradoclyde]

The others have nailed it. This is a cleaning issue. I have done some writing and marketing in the past and often catch 'qualifiers' in ads that make what is said something other than fact.
e.g. When I first tested pre-marekt Pyrodex for them in the early 1970s I noticed the claim that "it does not corrode like black powder". The key (trick) word there is "like". They don't deny it corrodes but, in reality, it corrodes in a manner different than black powder.
Clean yer guns.
BTW, that was the first and last time I ever used Pyrodex.

If I remember pyrodex was marketed as less fouling and not less corrosive ...but I could be wrong.

 

[MacRob46]

Clyde..I think you are right. I considered using Pyrodex when it came out, even bought a pound. The can has never been opened. The literature talked about fouling being less, much less than BP but the information at the time stated that using it did not preclude cleaning. I once met a fellow at a range who had a replica Sharps carbine, percussion model who had somehow managed to get Pyrodex to ignite in the gun. I asked him about cleaning and he said he did not have to. While we were standing there he removed the breech and the powder chamber was mass of rust, ditto the bore. I believe the gun was ruined. A Shiloh Sharps I bought in the 70s came with instructions which mentioned using Pyrodex but it was well-known at the time that the powder had to be tightly compressed to ignite reliably and Shiloh later took it out of the instructions.

Because I never actually used Pryodex I cannot testify to the difficulties of cleaning a gun firing it as opposed to BP, but I have never had a problem getting my guns clean with BP. Nor has fouling been a major problem as long as I use a good patch lube and wipe the bore at reasonable intervals. Frankly I do not see a reason to use Pyrodex in anything.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Pyrodex residue IS more corrosive(any fool can verify this with litmus paper)

Black powder residue is easier to neutralize and does not require the same extent and intensity of cleaning as pyroduh.

so yes it is a cleaning issue. Many who shot only black powder and then tried pyroduh did the same cleaning that would do for black powder and found that the bores continued to rust days later.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I agree with what your saying, and I am admittedly not a chemist. I am curios what the PH values were when you tested.
If I remember, salts are also produced along with nitric and sulfuric acids, post combustion.
I’m not trying to start an argument , I think we all agree that the lack of cleaning is the real culprit.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The others have nailed it. This is a cleaning issue. I have done some writing and marketing in the past and often catch 'qualifiers' in ads that make what is said something other than fact.
e.g. When I first tested pre-marekt Pyrodex for them in the early 1970s I noticed the claim that "it does not corrode like black powder". The key (trick) word there is "like". They don't deny it corrodes but, in reality, it corrodes in a manner different than black powder.
Clean yer guns.
BTW, that was the first and last time I ever used Pyrodex.

If I remember pyrodex was marketed as less fouling and not less corrosive ...but I could be wrong.

cc, re-read my post. Their wording did give that impression and the myth spread.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I think a lot of the actual problems associated with Pyrodex and the lack of adequate cleaning come from modern ML shooters. The lack of knowledge gained from shooting real BP in a traditional BP firearm and cleaning it traditionally, puts them at a severe disadvantage when using a propellant so similar to BP.
I am amused and disgusted every time I go to a place like Cabelas . Where behind the gun counter is some young kid who grew up thinking guns were for hunting Zombies. This same kid is trying to be a “salesman”, and giving some poor unsuspecting buyer expert knowledge, OF WHICH HE HAS NONE.

 

[coloradoclyde]

oops link problems