TC Hawken 50 cal 1-48

[JimT]

I own both cap and flintlock rifles and all are set up with round ball twists.I took the 1-48 twist bbl off one of my TC Hawkens but still have it. Next year I will be hunting elk with it and wanted to go with a conical bullet for a little more energy. My thought was to reinstall the 1-48 bbl, do some of you folks have some input as to what bullet or mold to start with that works well with the Thompson center Hawken factory bbl twist.
Thanks in advance for your help. Jim

 

[Jamie from Alberta]

PRB will cleanly take down an elk but if your looking for a conical or cast your own anyone of the following will work;
TC Maxi-Ball, TC Maxi-Hunter, Lee R.E.A.L., Lyman or Hornady Plains Bullet.
Many shooters are starting with 70grs of powder and working up a load.

Personally, I'd give my Maxi-Balls or REAL bullets a try if it were me.
For a 1:60 i'd be using my .54 Lyman GPR with round ball.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I would reach out to "Idaho Ron" he is an expert on this very topic. Yah yah a .50 PRB will "do if you do your part" but ethically you limit your range and that can be a factor on a western elk hunt... a .50 connical in a 1/48 barrel should make you dangerous to 100 - 125 yards with plenty of practiced vs 70 - 80 yards with the PRB. EXPECIALLY with any quartering to the shot. (mine like 90 grains of FFG, a felt wad, and connical. zero'd at 25 yards is 3" high at 50 yards, and 1" low at 100 yards... about 12" low at 125 yards.

Hornady puts out a hollow point - hollow base Great Plains hunter that is a prettty solid / accurate over the counter connical

 

[JimT]

I have hunted deer with a 54 cal with a 1-70 bbl twist with good results. The only conical bbl I have is the 50. I know I could probably get by using the 54, I wanted the added assurance of a heavier bullet with more sectional density and energy. I was going to order a 320 gr Lee real mold for starters , but if there is a better combination I would go with that also.
Thanks again.

 

[Jamie from Alberta]

320gr REAL should do you just fine!

 

[Renegade Dan]

I used 80 gr. 2F with a t/c 370gr. maxi ball was a very accurate load out of all my 50 cal. t/c muzzleloaders with a 1:48 twist. A 320 gr. t/c maxi ball worked well also. Never had much luck with accuracy with the t/c maxi hunters. The maxi balls have great penetration.

 

[Rat Trapper]

The conical load I use in my TC Hawken 50 caliber rifle is: Hornady great plains 385 grain bullet, ox-yoke felt prelubed over powder wad, 90 grains of Triple Seven 2F and a CCI Mag #11 cap. This load is a tack driver in my rifle, but loads real hard. If a conical loads easy, they have done well in any of my rifles. I have not ran this load over any screens, but I believe it will do around 1500 fps. every rifle is different, but you can try this load and see how it does for you in your rifle. Please report back on what your results were with the different bullets.

 

[ebiggs1]

A 50 cal RB for elk is a no-no in my book. :td:
No way I would give my blessing to anyone that uses a 50 RB on elk, not that, that makes the tiniest bit of difference to anybody. :hmm:
So you are left with the TC Maxi Ball as my choice of projectile. And don't skimp on the powder either! :thumbsup:

Elk are big and you probably won't get they story book shot. It will be a real world situation. :grin:

 

[Billnpatti]

You are a bit undergunned for hunting elk with a .50 cal rifle. If you place your shot carefully at distances under 75 yards, you can take an elk with a .50 cal conical slug but it is pretty marginal as an elk caliber. You will do better with something of .54 caliber and up. A .58 would be best. A patched round ball in a .58 caliber will certainly cleanly kill an elk but even with a .54 or a .58, I'd recommend a conical such as the T/C Maxi Ball or one of the conicals specifically designed for hunting. Forget the plastic sabot bullets, they are meant for inlines.

Take enough rifle, use conical bullets designed for hunting and keep your ranges under 100 yards and you will be able to cleanly and humanely take an elk.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I own both cap and flintlock rifles and all are set up with round ball twists.I took the 1-48 twist bbl off one of my TC Hawkens but still have it. Next year I will be hunting elk with it and wanted to go with a conical bullet for a little more energy. My thought was to reinstall the 1-48 bbl, do some of you folks have some input as to what bullet or mold to start with that works well with the Thompson center Hawken factory bbl twist.
Thanks in advance for your help. Jim

First off elk come in different sizes just like most game. On the small end a calf is as big as a VERY BIG mule deer.

On the other end of the scale they also can be as big as a work horse.

A 50 cal is plenty of gun in my opinion if you use a good bullet, and that is the important part.
I have tested and used a 410 gr 50 cal Hornady Great plains bullets. They are accurate in a 1-28 fast twist Green Mountain barrel. I have shot several deer with them and they are good. Penetration is decent and they do well on deer. I am not sure I would recommend them for a bull hunt but I would for a cow hunt.

The 358 gr hornady is in my opinion not a bullet I would hunt elk with. I know that is going to make a few people shocked.I don't like hollow point bullets. Hornady bullets are butter soft. Butter on a 100 degree day soft. For thick skinned heavy muscled animals I don't think the penetration potential is there.

I don't have personal experience with the TC bullets on game but I am not a big fan due to this bullet

Where I am going with this is I would lean to the REAL bullet if I were going to use a factory twist barrel. I would take virgin pure lead and mix in 1000 grains of hard lead shot into 10 pounds of lead. This will give you a mix that will pour well and fill out the mould. It will harden a pinch for penetration. I can't tell you what accuracy to expect out of a factory barrel but my 1-28 will shoot 3" to 4" groups with peep sights. Ron

 

[William O.]

A heavy conical is going to require you to sight the rifle in all over again, assuming you have already done that with a PRB out of your 50 cal/1:48 barrel. I know that the 1:48 twist rate has been billed as a compromise and/or able to shoot RB and conicals equally well, but is that the case with your particular rifle? If you have worked up an accurate PRB load out of your .54 then that is what I would go elk hunting with. Also, getting a 50 caliber lead conical to have anything but a rainbow trajectory compared to shooting a RB out of it is going to require a lot more powder and that is going to equate to a lot more recoil. Will that affect how accurately you're able to shoot it? I've tried several different conicals through my .54/1:48 rifle but none could match the accuracy of a PRB. I had a fast twist, .50 Great Plains Hunter barrel that grouped 220 grain REAL bullets into a 1 inch hole, but I had to use 95 grains of 3f. After just 75 yards the bullets just started to drop too much to be acceptable and the recoil was simply unpleasant. I'd rather put my faith in a 50 cal RB that I knew I could put right where I needed it to be at 125 yards than a heavy conical that limited my shots to 75 yards at most.
If your .50 barrel shoots conicals well then take it with you but don't get worried if you can't find one that it likes.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

370 maxiball or the 385gr hornady great plains bullets are known to shoot real good out of the tc hawken.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I've spent time in elk camps as both a worker and a paying hunter. I've shot elk and seen elk killed. when elk are not shot correctly, they like to go places that will make you wish you never started this thing. I carried a 338 win mag, but never recommend it to customers, cause most of them couldn't handle it. I carried that rifle all over the west and Alaska. It served me well.

If I was going to hunt elk with a muzzle loader, I'd use a conical or one of the top end bullets we can not speak of here. Today elk hunts for most of us cost a lot of money. On a 5 day hunt you have to take the shot that is offered. If you live in elk habit, you can wait for the shot you want.

I would strongly recommend some PMs to ID Ron and pick his brain. He's done a lot of work with conicals and he has taken a lot of western game with them. I think he knows what the results would be with a lot of combinations you can think of.

Deer are small, you can get away with a smaller gun. when you move up to the big animals, use enough gun, and don't let the key board shooters tell you otherwise. Good luck.

 

[Vaino]

Started elk hunting w/ a .50 cal. TC Hawken w/ the 1:48 bbl and used the 410 gr Buffalo Bullet ahead of 100 grs 2f and this rifle and load has shot many elk...no longer use it, but many others in our party have and still do....it's a "camp loaner gun".

Stopped using it and went to a .54 PRB rifle for 2 reasons...a 100 yd zero yields a very high mid-range height w/ the above load, so the practical zero is 60 yds VS a 100 yd zero for the .54 PRB. Also the conical doesn't stay on the powder charge in a clean bbl and must be checked often while hunting......Fred

 

[nkbj]

JimT, I'd find a maxihunter and see if it will work in that particular barrel.

I'm currently working with ol' ugly, a .54 with the 48" twist, and recently looked up the twist rate calcs to compare calibers. Fiddling with the calculator here's what I got for approximations.
.45 caliber max bullet length = 0.63".
.50 caliber max bullet length = 0.75".
.54 caliber max bullet length = 0.90".
.58 caliber max bullet length = 1.05".
Seems to me that finding a mold as heavy as you might want that isn't too long can be the biggest problem. NEI has some nice looking designs. http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog.html

 

[rodwha]

Could a tight fitting wad placed above the conical keep it in place for a month or so?

 

[necchi]

That's not a real good idea rodwha, something over the top of a projectile is generally refered to as an "obstruction".
Depending on the shape or meplat of the projectile anything over the top could be pushed to one side instead of riding down the bore evenly and reek havoc.

There are several discussions here of "Paper Patch" when used with bullet type projectiles,,
A much better way of thinking,, :wink:

 

[ebiggs1]

I've spent time in elk camps as both a worker and a paying hunter. I've shot elk and seen elk killed. when elk are not shot correctly, they like to go places that will make you wish you never started this thing.

and don't let the key board shooters tell you otherwise.

Until the “key board shooters” experience this, they will never know. And I suppose they will continue to advise hunters to go out under gunned until they wear out their key boards!

 

[rodwha]

Are PP bullets and REAL's the only thing that stay in place other than the unmentionables?

I believe the Deerstalker I am getting has the shallow grooves....

 

[Vaino]

Tried some wadded newspaper and hand cut wads over the conical and the conicals were all over the paper.....the accuracy was really bad....Fred