Ken Cormier
50 Cal.
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- Nov 9, 2010
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Buy a old Lyman
-
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Which to buy?
- Thread starter Andrew Gudeman
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Lymans have the hooked barrels/breeches, which makes it easier to take apart and clean, vs the Pedersolis' which usually don't. It is possible the Hawken that Pedersoli makes for Cabellas does, but I kinda doubt it. The older Cabellas which were made by Investarms (also the makers of Lyman) had the hooked barrels/breech.
I would recommend the Lyman. BTW, I've dealt with Lymans' CS, and contrary to a few others who posted bad things about them, found them to be very helpful. I guess it's just in your approach to them. I've never had a problem with them, recently the screw on my Trade rifle holding the ramrod fell out, and I didn't notice it until later. It was impossible to think about finding the parts. I call Lyman CS, spoke to a really nice CS rep named Joe, he sent me a replacement at no cost.
I would recommend the Lyman. BTW, I've dealt with Lymans' CS, and contrary to a few others who posted bad things about them, found them to be very helpful. I guess it's just in your approach to them. I've never had a problem with them, recently the screw on my Trade rifle holding the ramrod fell out, and I didn't notice it until later. It was impossible to think about finding the parts. I call Lyman CS, spoke to a really nice CS rep named Joe, he sent me a replacement at no cost.
Just curious, did you actually have a TC Firestorm? Or was it from someone telling you about the quality of the Firestorm? I'm not looking for a debate, just curious. I'm actually in the market for one. I like the idea of the removable breech plug, on a flintlock. Thanks.fools sulphur said:
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2014
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That was my first flintlock.
It had a maybe 1 by 1/4 inch chunk of metal that cracked off the rifling half way down the bore. T/C replaced the barrel no questions. December muzzleloading season in NY was coming soon, so case manager guy rushed the shipping and replacement down to a touch under 2 weeks both ways.
The trigger. I have a lyman trigger scale. From memory it goes up to 12 lbs. It maxed out before going off. I used a fish scale, yes a fish scale for weighing in big ocean fish, and I got between 15 and 18lbs. Thompson did not want to fix that for free. The sear looked like it was tuned with a belt sander. There was also a piece of machining shaving in the tumbler area.
The stock. Yes, it works, no it does not look pretty. It is flimsy, has thick casting lines. I needed to cut down those casting line in 3 places because it would scratch me.
The gun had lots of problems making a good spark. Could be operator error because it was my first gun. The frizzen opening movement was a bit on the tough side. So, flint would last maybe 15-20 shots before needing to be replaced without knapping. This is using both sides of the flint. Agate flints, those clean cut ones would not spark as good as the old school black English ones.
Again, this was my first muzzleloader. I got rid of it and bought a LH Lyman 54 cal flintlock.
Flints last 50-75 shots before needing to be reknapped. Much much less failure to fires. One sweet trigger too.
With the firestorm it's 1:28 twist, so you need to use conicals and/or sabots. My groups were about 5 inches at 100 minus the fliers. With the lyman and it's need to use roundball or older conicals, I get good 2" groups at 100 yards.
Extremely glad I went with the lyman. I have a huge problem with the lyman. I did not build the gun from scratch. Now I want to hunt with something I built.
Lyman makes kits for most of their guns too.
It had a maybe 1 by 1/4 inch chunk of metal that cracked off the rifling half way down the bore. T/C replaced the barrel no questions. December muzzleloading season in NY was coming soon, so case manager guy rushed the shipping and replacement down to a touch under 2 weeks both ways.
The trigger. I have a lyman trigger scale. From memory it goes up to 12 lbs. It maxed out before going off. I used a fish scale, yes a fish scale for weighing in big ocean fish, and I got between 15 and 18lbs. Thompson did not want to fix that for free. The sear looked like it was tuned with a belt sander. There was also a piece of machining shaving in the tumbler area.
The stock. Yes, it works, no it does not look pretty. It is flimsy, has thick casting lines. I needed to cut down those casting line in 3 places because it would scratch me.
The gun had lots of problems making a good spark. Could be operator error because it was my first gun. The frizzen opening movement was a bit on the tough side. So, flint would last maybe 15-20 shots before needing to be replaced without knapping. This is using both sides of the flint. Agate flints, those clean cut ones would not spark as good as the old school black English ones.
Again, this was my first muzzleloader. I got rid of it and bought a LH Lyman 54 cal flintlock.
Flints last 50-75 shots before needing to be reknapped. Much much less failure to fires. One sweet trigger too.
With the firestorm it's 1:28 twist, so you need to use conicals and/or sabots. My groups were about 5 inches at 100 minus the fliers. With the lyman and it's need to use roundball or older conicals, I get good 2" groups at 100 yards.
Extremely glad I went with the lyman. I have a huge problem with the lyman. I did not build the gun from scratch. Now I want to hunt with something I built.
Lyman makes kits for most of their guns too.
- Joined
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When buying a firearm. You are buying three things.
An engineered design.
A collection of parts.
An assembly and tuning of these parts.
All the above items of the firestorm did not add up to $500-600 dollars in my opinion. I have seen much nicer traditions flintlocks for half the price.
From memory, the firestorm came in both twist rates.
The stainless and removable breech attracted me too.
However, stainless means nothing. It will still rust without proper cleaning.
Removable breech is nice, but not really needed. I'd love a removable breech in every muzzleloader I own.
However, use a muzzle guide and range rod to prevent damage and wear to the crown of the rifling.
Push a patch down the bore the next day to check if your cleaning is OK or not.
You can buy a bore flashlight to see down the bore.
Get a ball puller to remove stuck balls. Get a 40 cal brush to clean the patent breech if your gun has one, lymans and T/C do. Brushes can cause problem in the bore if they break or become unthreaded, never twist the ramrod counterclockwise, and use good brushes. I use the brush to clean the breech and put a oiled patch on the brush to prevent rust in the breech.
Also, get a patch worm to recover lost patches.
Get the above things and a breech plug isn't really needed.
An engineered design.
A collection of parts.
An assembly and tuning of these parts.
All the above items of the firestorm did not add up to $500-600 dollars in my opinion. I have seen much nicer traditions flintlocks for half the price.
From memory, the firestorm came in both twist rates.
The stainless and removable breech attracted me too.
However, stainless means nothing. It will still rust without proper cleaning.
Removable breech is nice, but not really needed. I'd love a removable breech in every muzzleloader I own.
However, use a muzzle guide and range rod to prevent damage and wear to the crown of the rifling.
Push a patch down the bore the next day to check if your cleaning is OK or not.
You can buy a bore flashlight to see down the bore.
Get a ball puller to remove stuck balls. Get a 40 cal brush to clean the patent breech if your gun has one, lymans and T/C do. Brushes can cause problem in the bore if they break or become unthreaded, never twist the ramrod counterclockwise, and use good brushes. I use the brush to clean the breech and put a oiled patch on the brush to prevent rust in the breech.
Also, get a patch worm to recover lost patches.
Get the above things and a breech plug isn't really needed.
Andrew Gudeman
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
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Hey all...I'm the guy who started this thread. Thanks for all the input...
So here's what happened...I am the proud owner of two used percussion rifles. A 1972 Bernadelli 1841 Mississippi, and a T/C Hawken in .45. Got them both for the price of the Cabela's Hawken I was looking at. Friend also tossed in a range rod, about 50- .58 Minie balls, about 50- .45 TC maxi balls, caps for both, and good instruction.
Both are in great shape. No rust or corrosion, wood is in good shape..may refinish...and brass is to be polished.
I'm happy with the deal for a first-timer. :grin:
Just looking for a correct reproduction sling for the 1841 Mississippi...
So here's what happened...I am the proud owner of two used percussion rifles. A 1972 Bernadelli 1841 Mississippi, and a T/C Hawken in .45. Got them both for the price of the Cabela's Hawken I was looking at. Friend also tossed in a range rod, about 50- .58 Minie balls, about 50- .45 TC maxi balls, caps for both, and good instruction.
Both are in great shape. No rust or corrosion, wood is in good shape..may refinish...and brass is to be polished.
I'm happy with the deal for a first-timer. :grin:
Just looking for a correct reproduction sling for the 1841 Mississippi...
I among others like the tarnished look of the brass. Cleans up fast but takes along time to get the aged look back. :v Larry
kingsax26
45 Cal.
whatever you choose...get it in .54....my first was a .50 and it was gone within 6 months. its good for whitetail.....but the .54 is nominally ;larger with alot more authority... as far as him telling you that the .54 was going the way of the dodo...hes full of skunk....if anything id say theres more available in .54 cal... I learned the hard way....the .54 will do much more than you need... better to ahve too much than not enough..
Good for you. Now you have a 45 for plinking and the bigger one for hunting. Not that you couldn't hunt with the 45 but it's nice to have some options. Enjoy!
MercerLake
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2006
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:v The dealers may be the ones trying to drop .54s. As for projectiles a mold will guarantee your supply of Rb or suitable conicals. A .54 Rb will handle most game including elk or moose, and for brown bears then you'd be good with a conical. Depends what you want or have available for hunting. The best caliber is the one you like for your shooting pleasure. :v
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Shoot both. You can sell that 45 hawken for a good bit of money. Resale on T/C are pretty high.
You can save your money for a rifle kit, or most likely end up having a the 1841 for free.
You can save your money for a rifle kit, or most likely end up having a the 1841 for free.
I agree. The used .45 longrifle I bought has a lot of brass fittings on it, all tarnished. In my initial enthusiasm at owning such a fine gun I was going to polish all that lovely brass to within an inch of its life!! Fortunately, while staring at it I realised that it had taken many years of a combination of handling, aging and various cleaning concoctions to achieve the patina that was showing - so I left it alone. It just gives it that "olde worlde" look.
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