causeof misfires?

[luc]

I have just started shooting bp last year with my brothers rifle, a tradions sidelock .50 cal. Every thing worked well, no problems so I bought a .54 cal hawkens by Invest arms this year. I am real happy with it, shoots great. My question has to do with my brother-in-laws guns; one is a traditions .50 deerhunter and the other an investarms .50 hawkens. the guns have been thouroughly cleaned but he still has several misfires during hunting season. In order to get the rifle to fire he generally has to pour some powder under the nipple.I have watched him clean the guns and load them and to my best knowledge I believe he did everything right. He is using Pyrodex rs and it is older powder but was in a sealed container. The powder I got with my rifle was ten years old and when I went to the range I shot over 50 times and never experienced a single misfire. could his problem be his powder? or what?

 

[musketman]

The powder will keep for many, many years...

I suspect the problem might be with the nipple itslef or the bolster (the part that the nipple screws into)

When he cleans it, does he take the nipple out?
I have seen powder foulings pushed into this area from the cleaning process.

Has he cleaned inside the nipple? (there might be some foulings lodged up in there)
Make sure the hole is opened for the cap's flame to go through.

Take the nipple out and clean the inside of the bolster area with a few Q-tips, making sure the chamber inside is open and free of obstructions.
(I once fixed a cap lock that was completly plugged here, I had to work it out with a brass pick)

Once cleaned and oiled, (inside and out) does he stand the gun up? (excess oil inside the barrel could drain down into the nipple area, causing misfires)

I would suggest firering a few caps before loading, just to burn off any leftover oil inside the breach area.

He might have to go to a hotter cap or even a musket cap/musket nipple system if this keeps happening.

Last resort, redrill the hole in the nipple or just get a new nipple and tin of caps and see if it is still missing.

I hope this will help solve the problem he is having.

 

[roundball]

FYI...I also agree with the above that if powder is kept sealed it has a very, very long life and it should not be the problem.
And it should also be remembered that all the BP substitutes have higher ignition temperatures than real BP.

When I started out with muzzloading, I shot pyrodex exclusively for the first 10 years in a number of TC Hawken sidelock percussions and used nothing inside the bore except TC's natural lube 1000...no oil at all.

I keep my hooked breech barrels squeaky clean including the bolster & nipple by cleaning the whole thing in a large bucket of hot soapy water and bone drying everything afterwards.

I would religiously ensure the bore & breech was dry and clear before loading, including popping off 5 caps each time.

Then after loading I would immediately seal the breech area by sliding a tight fitting 1/8" rubber "vacuum plug" over the nipple (auto parts stores) and sealed the bore by covering the muzzle with electricians tape, muzzle mitts, finger cots, etc.

Yet in spite of no oil, and taking all those precautions, I would still have the rare but bothersome misfire using pyrodex at the range and once even dropping the hammer on a six pointer.

I switched to the hotter CCI #11 Magnum caps when they came out and have never had a misfire since.

Then when I went to Goex FFFg for Flintlocks, I was so impressed with it's speed and cleanliness that I've switched and rezeroed my percussions with Goex too...life is simpler now.

 

[RJR]

When I was shooting the original barrel that came with my Lyman (way back when) I used to have periodic misfires. Cleanliness and oil were not the problem and neither was moisture. The problem was the way the flash hole was cut in the breech plug, it was too small. After pulling the BP and redoing the flash hole and modifying the nipples, I never had a problem after that. On the nipples, I drilled them to 1/32 in. It only slightly increases the hole diameter, but it did make a difference. This was all before magnum caps and Pyrodex was just coming out, the Dupont plant hadn't blown up yet for the last time. Hope this helps. Take care, Rick.

 

[luc]

Thanks for all the info guys, we actually have done some of the things you have said. I had a tin of the #11 cci magnum caps and Barry tried one when he had a misfire with no result( cap went off but charge didn't). He has cleaned the rifles with hot water and soap and dried with compressed air which moved freely through the nipple. He also fired a couple of caps prior to loading the rifles. One of the things you mentioned was oil,I just recalled that last year when I went out hunting with Barry, he told me he hadn't been out for several years and his buddy had been using the rifles. If I recall correctly Barry did not pre fire any caps before loading his guns and this could be where the trouble started as he misfired with the first shot he took. Later that evening his buddy told him that he had poured a fair amount of oil into the barrels to make sure no rust would occur. I believe the guns were stored upright. After firing the charges that would have been dampened with oil and having seen him do several cleanings, (he even was able to get the little screws out of the nipple bolster and blew compressed air through the passage)could there still be some residue at the bottom of the barrel causing all these misfires?

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by luc:
Could there still be some residue at the bottom of the barrel causing all these misfires? There could be a build up of crud that needs to be scraped out, can the breach be removed from this muzzleloader?
This would be one way to find out what's going on in the chamber area...

Does he have misfires using black powder?

You might want to try using FFFg black powder, I think this might go a long way in solving his muzzleloader's problem.

The flame from the fired cap has to make a sharp left turn to get to the chamber area, then it has to try and ignite the pyrodex powder.

As stated before in this forum, black powder has a lower flash point, and takes less flame to ignite.

I even hear that you could add a small amount of FFFFg into the barrel first then the pyrodex charge, (less the added black powder) to aid in the pyrodex's ignition. But this would seem like a hassle to do on a regular basis.

If the problem still exist, he may want to contact a gunsmith about the matter.

Hope these suggestions will help Barry.

 

[roundball]

I would think thorough soaking and cleaning with hot soapy water would have gotten all the oil out but without personally seeing the cleaning regimen, I couldn't reall say of course;
And I suppose it's possible that some residual oil could be leaching out of the breech plug threaded area, etc.
But once he's finaly gotten it to fire, then fired a few shots, oil should no longer be an issue.
And while he may already be doing this, I'll just mention that when charging a sidelock, I believe it's always helpful to hold the rifle up and bump the lock side of it a few times to ensure the powder gets fully to the the opening of the fire channel that the nipple flame flows through...bad enough the flame has to make one left turn and head towards the main charge, but you don't want it to have to make another turn looking for powder up in the bowl of the breech plug

 

[weasel]

when I shot them nipply type guns I change nipples two to three times a year ya didnt mention if the caps went off or just misfires knight redhot or thompson flamethrowers were my favrits puttin a few grains directly under nipple wouldn't hurt
weasel