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Any idea what this is?

L & R
muzzle loading side side shotguns
the hawken shop
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Notchy Bob said:
Amen to that!

I believe there is a species of imp that I call "the Patch Demon" that lives down in the breeches of neglected muzzleloaders. You push a jag with a patch on it down there and he'll grab it, and your rod, too. I have exercised the full extent of my expressive vocabulary in trying to pull out rods that were caught that way. It may be best to use a shotgun "loop" on your rod and put a patch in that, or use an undersized jag and secure the patch to it with a thread around the narrow neck of the jag. If you feel any resistance at all pushing it in a rusty bore, it's going to be hard to pull out.

Thanks for the additional photos and comments. I'm not sure what to make of your gun. I'm sort of leaning toward a gun put together our of odd parts, but the photo in post #13 shows checkering on the wrist. I would not expect to see that on a knocked-together frontier gun. I wonder if it might have been a pretty nice gun when first built, but then later repaired by a workman less skilled than the original builder. It's an enigma, but a lot of old guns are.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
Click to expand...
A trap many of us fall into when looking at old stuff is using a modern perspective about labor costs. In the era when this was likely cobbled together, labor was cheaper than the parts. No significant added cost to have a youth or woman worker cut in some rudimentary checkering, both were paid a good deal less than a man who didn’t make very much either.
 
Last edited:
1000007396.jpg
1000007394.jpg
1000007395.jpg

The butplate is brass, and the screws that held it on were hand cut and not really done well. The slot for the screwdriver is off center and the big screw is made on oval metal.

Is it worth running the parts through my hydrolysis tank to clean them up, or are they best left "in the rough?"
 
dan_1 said:
View attachment 295708
Click to expand...

This is not a low quality gun!
It’s middling or middle quality.
Sometimes you hear these referred to “buck and ball guns.
The lock is in no way related to this piece.
It looks like it was deliberately broken by smashing the butt on the ground.
Who knows?
Maybe the guy who tried to fit that later junky lock got mad?...
I would date this gun to around the first quarter of the 19th Century......
1800 ish......give or take
This gun is a candidate for restoration by someone that knows what they are doing.
dan_1 said:
View attachment 296462View attachment 296463View attachment 296464
The butplate is brass, and the screws that held it on were hand cut and not really done well. The slot for the screwdriver is off center and the big screw is made on oval metal.

Is it worth running the parts through my hydrolysis tank to clean them up, or are they best left "in the rough?"
Click to expand...
A very interesting gun!
This gun is a candidate for restoration by someone that actually knows what they are doing.
 
I just ran a coat hanger down the barrel and it's not loaded. Also, it filled with grease all but the end 5". It's possible that the bore is clean under all that grease!

There isn't any oder From the grease. I would expect it to smell like petroleum. If it wasn't oil based you would think it would be dried and solid.
 
54ball said:
This is not a low quality gun!
It’s middling or middle quality.
Sometimes you hear these referred to “buck and ball guns.
The lock is in no way related to this piece.
It looks like it was deliberately broken by smashing the butt on the ground.
Who knows?
Maybe the guy who tried to fit that later junky lock got mad?...
I would date this gun to around the first quarter of the 19th Century......
1800 ish......give or take
This gun is a candidate for restoration by someone that knows what they are doing.

A very interesting gun!
This gun is a candidate for restoration by someone that actually knows what they are doing.
Click to expand...
I’m still leaning towards an altered French fowler. I also think the original sideplate and inlet were done away with.
 
@2 shots Thanks for sharing. That one really makes me drool ! Yea, I probably need help. I do not have the expertise that some folks here on the forum do to help you ID it, but I can tell you that P.A.& S. Small had a hardware store in York, PA from1830 into the 1900's. In 1860 the store was at the York City square. No doubt where your lock came from. The P.A.& S. Small percussion locks that I have are pretty respectable for quality. Not fine English locks but not bad.

Thanks,
O.R.
 

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