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cannonball1

40 Cal.
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I am shooting a gun that has a 1 in 24" twist barrel at 200 yards. 90 grains of Swiss BP and for months I was shooting a group 4 to 5 inches and many times less. This is with a benchrest.

All of a sudden I am now shooting a 12" group. The first shot is way left and this gun has never done that. I cannot see a problem with the barrel or crown. I am trying to be as consistent as possible. The peep sights are secure. Any suggestions? Remember the first shoot is shooting way left of the rest of the shots.
 
cannonball1 said:
I am shooting a gun that has a 1 in 24" twist barrel at 200 yards. 90 grains of Swiss BP and for months I was shooting a group 4 to 5 inches and many times less. This is with a benchrest.

All of a sudden I am now shooting a 12" group. The first shot is way left and this gun has never done that. I cannot see a problem with the barrel or crown. I am trying to be as consistent as possible. The peep sights are secure. Any suggestions? Remember the first shoot is shooting way left of the rest of the shots.
Is the barrel now touching the lock by any chance?
 
have replaced the nipple and I am shooting the PP dry. Thought it might be the plastic wads, but I have cleaned with a solvent for plastic.
 
Is the barrel now touching the lock by any chance?
[/quote]

I guess I don't get your meaning. Yes it is touching the lock. Please explain. Thanks
 
cannonball1 said:
Is the barrel now touching the lock by any chance?

I guess I don't get your meaning. Yes it is touching the lock. Please explain. Thanks[/quote]
Any contact of barrel, nipple drum or bolster is a no no! The barrel should only be bearing down on wood or a bedding material.
I always make sure I can slip a piece of paper between barrel and lock plate.

B.
 
Do you remove the barrel from the stock when you clean it?

I've long suspected that when the barrel is removed from the stock to clean it, it doesn't seat quite right when it is put back into the stock.

Firing the first shot drives the barrel back to its normal position so after that first "flyer" has been shot, the barrel returns to its old, accurate ways.
 
Britsmoothy said:
cannonball1 said:
Is the barrel now touching the lock by any chance?

I guess I don't get your meaning. Yes it is touching the lock. Please explain. Thanks
Any contact of barrel, nipple drum or bolster is a no no! The barrel should only be bearing down on wood or a bedding material.
I always make sure I can slip a piece of paper between barrel and lock plate.

B.[/quote]

Really! Never heard that. All the guns I've made had the lock plate against the barrel. That is not to say the inletting was not done right and holding the lock in place, but I wouldn't want any chance of powder getting between the two. Gee I guess all of the gun making books I read were wrong. I think I will research that. Thanks for the info.
 
IMO, the inner face of the lockplate bolster should make a light contact with the side of the barrel. This applies to both percussion and flintlock guns.

If the gun uses a regular percussion lock and a side mounted drum, the bottom of the drum must rest on the lockplate. If it does not do this, the force from every blow of the hammer against the nipple will be trying to shear the threads on the drum and it won't be long before the threads break and the drum falls off.

If the percussion gun has the nipple on a bolster or "snail", the bottom of the bolster or snail should rest on the lockplate.
 
Zonie said:
IMO, the inner face of the lockplate bolster should make a light contact with the side of the barrel. This applies to both percussion and flintlock guns.

If the gun uses a regular percussion lock and a side mounted drum, the bottom of the drum must rest on the lockplate. If it does not do this, the force from every blow of the hammer against the nipple will be trying to shear the threads on the drum and it won't be long before the threads break and the drum falls off.

If the percussion gun has the nipple on a bolster or "snail", the bottom of the bolster or snail should rest on the lockplate.
Sorry zombie, I have to disagree.
If a locks hammer can eventually snap a drum off something is very much wrong!
If that was the case nipples would pein over in short time!

How you wrote sounds like yet another assumption ( not on your part), another example of a rule that no one knows where it came from becoming lore.

My own tests have revealed otherwise! On every gun (several) accuracy improved after heavy pressure from the barrels contact with a lock plate was adjusted so a thin piece of paper can pass between the two.
It's no different than a bolt rifles bolt handle touching the stock when closed, accuracy suffers the same.
It's no different than a levergun lever still bearing on the bolt long after the locking lug should of taken over, accuracy suffers.

Any variation in the firing that a barrel can normally soak up is amplified via a loose or third party contact that is not welded, forged or bolted to a barrel.

Sincerely.

B.
 
I just tried to find an old article on improving the 1853 Enfield rifle.
It gave detailed instructions on accurising the rifle. Part of which involved using thin wood veneers, greased to lift the breech end of the barrel off the lock.
However I can not find it, just a link to a small portion in pdf format.
B.
 
Raedwald said:
The article by Bill Curtis on 'Managing The Enfield' is held by Research Press at http://www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/firearms/british-military-longarms/enfield/managing-the-enfield
Yes thanks, I found that and quickly (!) looking through it could not find the part describing what lead me to experiment and find my conclusions that it does work.
It later apart from muzzleloaders solve troubled breech loaders by applying the same principles.

B :hatsoff:
 
I have found this.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/viewtopic.php%3ft=20605&amp=1
It vaguely touches on my point.
Chiefly talking of bedding however take note of reproduction guns having to much wood removed at the breech inletting.
That in turn allows an over bearing upon the lock plate etc etc. The breech is unbalanced in its stock etc.

B.
 
I have found the information in the link Raedwald kindly posted.
In the bedding section.
"The bedding corrections often necessary apply equally to all models of the Parker-Hale series. The chief difficulty occurs under the breech where often the barrel channel is too deep. The effect of this is to cause the under side of the nipple bolster to bed down hard on top of the lock plate without proper contact between the wood and metal under the breech. This fault shows itself by the group walking across the target, usually in a diagonal direction."

It's just the same for a flintlock.
If the lock plate is pressing on the barrel and nothing is supporting the other side sufficiently a stringing can occur.
Test by first shimming the lock out of the mortice until it barely touched the barrel.
A good thick beeswax grease mix or such will protect the lock inards and is easily washed away with boiling water.
 
Something for me to try, but bite down on this. Why is the first shot after cleaning and oiling almost 12" left from the rest of the shots and I am putting a wet patch and a couple of dry patches down the barrel after each shot. The gun did not do this until recently. I did notice the gun was starting to do it a very little bit with the first shot, but the gun would still give me a 200 yard four to five inch groups. These are five shot groups. I think I've done something to the riflings.
 

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