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Safe shooting distance for roundballs and steel targets?

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Runewolf1973

The Crown & Cutlass
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For those of you who shoot their black powder rifles at steel targets, what kind of yardage are you shooting from? How close is too close with steel targets and roundballs? I was shooting at 25 yards with a .50 cal roundball out of a flintlock rifle. I assuming the 100 yard minimum range doesn't apply because these are not really "high-powered" rifles? 25 yards feels pretty safe to me, but what do you guys think? (AR-500 steel plate 3/8" thick)
 
Too close. Its a long shot that the ricochet will come back and hit you...in the face... but do you really want to stare down a return ball? I'd play at 75 yards, no closer, but that's just my 2 cents based on common sense and a heaping helping of caution. :idunno:
Plus, I think the idea behind the steel target was its too far away to see a hole in the paper, so you use steel to hear it. At 25 you wont need it.
 
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I don't shoot paper or steel closer than 50 yards. Years back I shot USPSA with a handgun, ad I don't think we ever shot steel closer than 10 yards. 25 yards should be fine. RBs and conicals virtually splatter into fine particles when impacting steel and dispersed radially to the surface of the steel. There shouldn't be an issue unless the steel is cratered and the crater is deflecting lead back.
 
Ames said:
Too close. Its a long shot that the ricochet will come back and hit you...in the face... but do you really want to stare down a return ball? I'd play at 75 yards, no closer, but that's just my 2 cents based on common sense and a heaping helping of caution. :idunno:
Plus, I think the idea behind the steel target was its too far away to see a hole in the paper, so you use steel to hear it. At 25 you wont need it.


I don't know if you've actually used steel targets before? Shooting at steel in itself seems to go against common sense, however...

There is no return ball. You hit the steel target and the ball completley splatters into fine pieces. 10 yards is the recommended minimum safe distance for shooting steel with handguns in comparison. So for anyone who has never shot at steel, it may sound kinda freaky, but it's not really.

Duelist1954 here doesn't seem to have an issue with it at 25 yards. Just looking for some real world experience from others who actually use steel targets.

https://youtu.be/wYu03XUbAyY
 
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excess650 said:
I don't shoot paper or steel closer than 50 yards. Years back I shot USPSA with a handgun, ad I don't think we ever shot steel closer than 10 yards. 25 yards should be fine. RBs and conicals virtually splatter into fine particles when impacting steel and dispersed radially to the surface of the steel. There shouldn't be an issue unless the steel is cratered and the crater is deflecting lead back.

I am slowly getting better at shooting this new to me gun :grin: , so I started out at 25 yards and have worked up to 50 yards now.
 
Distance is not a very big factor in causing ricochets.

The important factors are
velocity
angle of attack
bullet composition.

The forward energy of a bullet has to go somewhere.

15 yards is as close as I like to shoot, any closer and I start to get a lot of splatter.


Hard steel like AR500 is designed for high velocities. IMO it is not necessary or my choice for a muzzleloader.

Use pure lead, shoot at a plate that is downward facing, keep your muzzle velocity supersonic, and wear good eye protection (bystanders included, as they often get the most flak).

(note): A steel plate/target should never be permanently fixed and perpendicular to the shooter. Also note that splatter can go violently and with great force at 90 degree angle to the face of the plate (left or right). So make sure this area is clear of anything you don't want to be destroyed.

I have over a 100 steel targets, been shooting steel for over 40 years and have been hit many times by ricochets.
Two of the scariest ricochets I encountered where off wood.

Regardless of what you do the chance of a ricochet is always there.

25 yards is a good minimum if all other things are in order.
 
I stopped being the secretary of my gun club due to the use of steel targets in the action pistol shoots.

They sot them from 7 yards and out. Several had been hit by ricochets so when those members started making new rules for target others could use I wanted 75 yards on the steel I got out voted. Then other problems of rule no rapid fire but OK at pistol shoots . I LEFT.

I have my own range and property and do what I deem safe and appropriate. I also shoot NFA which they wanted to disallow.
 
I have shot many steel silhouettes as part of the NMLRA Silhouette competition. The closest target is a crow at 50 yards. These targets are relatively small and designed to topple from the stand. Most of the energy goes into moving the silhouette leaving little energy for ricochet. The rules also state that using loads that damage targets will result in disqualification.
 
Maybe AR-500 is overkill for shooting roundball, but I just ended up getting myself the 8" round 3/8" thick steel target from Champion which hangs from a sheperd's hook. Works quite well, but I'm going to be adding a short length of chain which should further absorb the force.
 
In my former life, we never shot steel closer than fifteen yards. I’ve seen guys get hit with ricochets from fifteen, twenty-five, fifty and more yards. It just depends on angles and lead hardness etc.

Not to make you paranoid, but just be careful. The ground immediately in front of the target can help prevent bounce back. :hmm:
 
I have a considerable amount of experience shooting AR500 steel targets with a soft lead roundball and blackpowder. As someone previously noted, lead roundballs SPLATTER at 90 degrees from the plate face on AR500. At my club, we suspend them on chains that are hung from a piece of Re-bar supported by 4x4 posts on either side. Those posts show a LOT of "splatter-impacts" from the lead balls. The face of the steel also shows "splatter" marks, but ZERO damage to the plate, nor have we ever had any report of ricochet (other than the 90-degree splatter), or kick back to the firing line from as close as 25 yds. We haven't tried any closer shots than 25 yds, so I can't comment on how those might work out.
They are a favorite target for a lot of our shooters who enjoy the "instant gratification" of seeing the "gongs" spin around the re-bar when hit..!! :thumbsup:
 
Our local gun club has commercially made steel targets at the pistol range at 20 meters. The targets set on a vertical 2+4 set in the base. That way the 2x4 is replaceble as they get shot up by misses. The targets are designed so they are not vertical but hang about 10-15 degrees at a downward sloped angle to avoid a direct return ricochete. They seem to work quite well and get lots of use.
 
There is no return ball. You hit the steel target and the ball completley splatters into fine pieces.

Sorry :nono: not so. Lead, maybe not as a complete ball, can come back or go in a dangerous direction. They do not always splatter into fine pieces. It depends on several factors what happens to the ball, or other projectile.
I used to manufacture steel targets and later did a lot of competition, with both modern pistol and c&b pistols, on steel targets.
How the ball, or other projectile behaves when it hits the steel is more dependent on how that target is mounted than any other factor. (e.g. distance, type of steel, etc.) A heavy, fixed steel target can present serious dangers as the projectile or parts of it can fly in many/any direction. A target that swings or falls will direct that same projectile at a direction other than where it came from, meaning the shooter. I have a small scar on my elbow inflicted when (stupidly) testing at a very heavy fixed target at close distance with a pistol. Hanging, swinging or falling steel targets are the only ones that should even be considered for use with firearms, of any kind.
 
I have been leery of steel plate targets since seeing the video of a shooter hit severely with a bounce back ricochet..

I have understood that the wise safety procedure was to angle the steel plate toward the shooter so that all shots would ricochet downward And someone claimed to have a steel target where the expended round balls would collect below the plate.
You hear all sorts of things over the years but you don't see much of these rumored items.

Dutch
 
Rifleman1776 said:
There is no return ball. You hit the steel target and the ball completley splatters into fine pieces.

Sorry :nono: not so. Lead, maybe not as a complete ball, can come back or go in a dangerous direction. They do not always splatter into fine pieces. It depends on several factors what happens to the ball, or other projectile.
I used to manufacture steel targets and later did a lot of competition, with both modern pistol and c&b pistols, on steel targets.
How the ball, or other projectile behaves when it hits the steel is more dependent on how that target is mounted than any other factor. (e.g. distance, type of steel, etc.) A heavy, fixed steel target can present serious dangers as the projectile or parts of it can fly in many/any direction. A target that swings or falls will direct that same projectile at a direction other than where it came from, meaning the shooter. I have a small scar on my elbow inflicted when (stupidly) testing at a very heavy fixed target at close distance with a pistol. Hanging, swinging or falling steel targets are the only ones that should even be considered for use with firearms, of any kind.


It's all about the velocity. The faster, the more it splatters....The slower the more intact the balls remain.

I stopped shooting cap-n ball at speed racks because of bounce backs.

Like I said, "I've been hit many times but never injured".....But you could easily loose an eye. ....But, then you could get a percussion cap fragment in the eye too regardless of what you're shooting.
 
It's all about the velocity.

Sorry, CC, it is not all about velocity.There are many factors. Velocity is just one. As I said there are many factors. Hardness of the steel plate is a biggie. Less hard steels can cavitate on impact and return projectile detritus, hard/softness of the projectile is another factor. (it is impressive how much effect a soft lead ball can have on steel plate) And ricochet can happen not just with steel. I recall a .731" soft lead ball from my Brown Bess musket coming back when it hit a tree we were hanging targets on at a hunting camp. The higher velocity rifle balls went in, the big, slow punkin' ball came back with what could have been deadly results.
 
We have swingers at 25 yards and shoot silhouettes at 30 yards. Both are made of thick steel. The balls splatter on them, there is no ricochet.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
There is no return ball. You hit the steel target and the ball completley splatters into fine pieces.

Sorry :nono: not so. Lead, maybe not as a complete ball, can come back or go in a dangerous direction. They do not always splatter into fine pieces. It depends on several factors what happens to the ball, or other projectile.
I used to manufacture steel targets and later did a lot of competition, with both modern pistol and c&b pistols, on steel targets.
How the ball, or other projectile behaves when it hits the steel is more dependent on how that target is mounted than any other factor. (e.g. distance, type of steel, etc.) A heavy, fixed steel target can present serious dangers as the projectile or parts of it can fly in many/any direction. A target that swings or falls will direct that same projectile at a direction other than where it came from, meaning the shooter. I have a small scar on my elbow inflicted when (stupidly) testing at a very heavy fixed target at close distance with a pistol. Hanging, swinging or falling steel targets are the only ones that should even be considered for use with firearms, of any kind.

I was r
 
Rifleman1776 said:
It's all about the velocity.

Sorry, CC, it is not all about velocity.There are many factors. Velocity is just one. As I said there are many factors. Hardness of the steel plate is a biggie. Less hard steels can cavitate on impact and return projectile detritus, hard/softness of the projectile is another factor. (it is impressive how much effect a soft lead ball can have on steel plate) And ricochet can happen not just with steel. I recall a .731" soft lead ball from my Brown Bess musket coming back when it hit a tree we were hanging targets on at a hunting camp. The higher velocity rifle balls went in, the big, slow punkin' ball came back with what could have been deadly results.

That's all still a function of velocity.....All those factors become moot if velocity is high enough.
 
Sorry. Got a poor connection here and my last post did not come through right.

When I said "no return ball", I was referring to a fully entact ball returning after hitting a steel target. Not that it's impossible, but I think it's very highly unlikely. Fragments are always a possibility, so I wear eye protection.
 
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