traditions pennsylvania flintlock review

Thanks for reading. And thanks again for the help I received regarding some issues I was having with my TC Hawken.

A friend of a friend offered me his 50 cal traditions pennsylvania flintlock for $200 (I was told it was not a kit gun). I looked at the rifle and everything appears to be ok to me (through my novice eyes). The barrel is stamped with a "warning" so I'm assuming it is not too old although I would say it is in used condition.

Can anyone provide me with any info (good, bad, or in different) on this model gun or specific things I should look at on the rifle?

Thanks,
Dino

I can see you getting ripped off bad here. Please provide his name and number & I will remove this threat from you. Thank me later :grin:

$200.00 sounds like a steal to me. Check the bore. If good I'd grab it. A bad lock can be replaced with top of the line for $200.00 and you still have a great deal. Number please :wink:

I agree the price sounds good. About the only real serious issue one could run into is if the gun was shot and left uncleaned for a period of time and has bad pitting in the barrel. Check the barrel with a good bore light to see if it is clean. Another option if the owner will let you is to run a lightly oiled patch down the bore on the ramrod and see if it goes down smoothly. with only the rod turning slightly as it follows the rifling all should be good. If you run into some areas that seem to snag, then there may be some pitting.

....or a bulged barrel. If there is a "loose" spot with the cleaning rag....(tight, loose then tight again the barrel likely bulged).

I’d inspect the gun and if it checks out, purchase right away.

At $200 you’ve little to lose. If something is wrong, sell it for parts or flip it on Gun Broker with a disclaimer for the same price. Or keep it and fix it up. Either way I’d get it.

Thanks for the help! I inspected the barrel and all looked good...ran a few patches down the barrel and didn't notice anything more than a little surface rust that cleared up....also didn't notice any inconsistencies with the inside barrel diameter (no apparent bulging). I also cocked and dry-fired several times with a nice spark each time. I was told the spring and the frizzen were replaced. Following my inspection, “I pulled the trigger” and bought the rifle (no pun intended). I took it to a local range last evening and shot the rifle twice with no issues...during my third shot, I could not keep the hammer cocked...it would sometimes catch at half-cocked and when I tried to bring it to full cock, it kept slipping...when it would "catch", by bumping the gun, it would slip again. I cleared the pan and removed the flint until I figure out what’s up (I didn't pull the ball yet).

With only the info above, do you think that if I took the lock apart, I would be able to adjust the hammer issue? Or dies this sound like I need a new lock assembly. Note I'm a novice

Thanks!!

Dino

PS. if you suggest I remove/inspect the lock, do I need to remove the barrel first (there are pins holding the barrel onto the stock, unlike the wedge pin that holds the barrel on the stock of my TC Hawken). Any tricks I should be aware of in removing the barrel? Do I also need to remove the breach? I'll be searching the Web for help this afternoon. Thanks!!

More than likely, the triggers are set in too deep in the trigger mortise. This is very likely if the triggers are held in place by a through bolt from the tang to the trigger plate.

You don't need to remove the barrel or the breech.

I don't think that the lock is the problem. I would remove the triggers and make a shim of thin cardboard and install the triggers. This will give you a bit more clearance between the sear and the trigger lever.

While the triggers are removed, remove the lock and see if the lock holds at full cock. It the lock holds, then the trigger is too high in the trigger mortise. While the lock is out, look at the half cock and full cock notches. The half cock should hold the sear securely. At full cock, the sear should fit in the notch and release.

I think a shim for the trigger will solve your problem.

You don't need to remove the barrel to remove the lock. After you do remove the lock with the two lock screws you will see a small screw inside the mechanism. This screw adjusts the sear engagement. Give the screw a half turn in and check your full cock position. I had the same issue on one of my rifles.

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Thanks guys! I'll let you know how it pans out!

I know now that I don't need to remove the barrel to access the lock, but... if I wanted to remove the barrwl, would I simply tap out the brass pins? Are the pins meant to be popped in and out, or only as needed. I would like to clean the stock and barrel and, if the barrel was removed, I could do a much better job.

Thanks again!!

Dino

If I may...I have another question regarding this rifle. When shooting the rifle, my cheek (the one on my head) gets hit with the stock of the rifle...I have never had this happen...I'm assuming it has to do with the geometry of the stock. I read afterward, that maybe with this style rifle, I need to hold the stock end above my bicep instead of my shoulder...any thoughts?

Thanks!!!

Dino

The pins need only be tapped out when needed and that need is not very often.

A very thorough cleaning can be done without removing the barrel. I plug my touch hole and fill the barrel with water containing a few drops of dishwashing liquid to dissolve any oils from my lubricant. Let this set for a couple of minutes, dump the water and do it again. Once the water is clean, it's time to run some patches to clean the more stubborn fouling. Run a dry patch or two.to remove water. I use a rust inhibiting lubricant to protect the bore and the gun is ready for ztorage.

When it's time to go to the range, a patch with rubbing alcohol will repair the bore for shooting.

So.etimez it is the geometry of the story k that makes a cheek slapper a d sometimes it's an individual's build. Try holding the rifle on your bicep.

thanks!!!

One other suggestion with Traditions rifles is the front lock screw often holds a spring in place that holds the ramrod in the rifle. If that screw is fully removed the flat spring may move and not go back into place when the lock is placed back in the stock. If that happens the ramrod may fall out of the rifle when it is pointed down. On mine, I place a piece of masking tape over the head of the front lock screw to hold it in the stock and only unscrew it so the lock can be pulled and then tape it. I do not pull the screw out. Doing this prevents the flat ramrod spring form moving out of place as the screw goes through the curled end of the spring to hold it in place.

I hope that makes sense. Just don't fully remove the lock screw closest to the barrel.

I have the same rifle. $200 is a "smokin" deal. Very nicely made rifles for repro's. Very happy with mine, but be forewarned , flintlocks have a learning curve if you're new to them (as I am ) here's some info links to my experiences :
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/305381/post/1650481/hl//fromsearch/1/

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/305436/post/1651332/hl//fromsearch/1/
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/305553/post/1653528/hl//fromsearch/1/

Unfortunately the learning curve is vastly related to the quality in which one selects a flintlock. Largely that begins with a cheaper production flintlock that is poorly designed and ends up giving the user fits... In turn the inexperienced user then labels all flintlock arms as unreliable, temperamental and just not worth the efforts. Nothing could be further from the truth!

In the world of flintlock arms you absolutely "get what you pay for". Traditions guns on the commercial market are very overpriced for what they are... However, for $200 in good shape you are doing well.

Keep in mind though that what you have will never be comparable or hold re-sale value to that of a well crafted flintlock. Also it's not a repo of any HC rifle so throw that out the window.

Not trying to be negative but I've seen many new to the flintlock world fall victim to the production flinter blues... If you keep things in perspective, you'll have fun.

Many things can be done to enhance the performance of that Traditions rifle, however look at what they sell for new... At that price you shouldn't have to fiddle with a rifle! What does that tell you about Traditions quality?

Again, for $200 that's a great deal, I personally wouldn't spend the funds as I build my rifles but for what it is, it'll make smoke and you'll have fun and learn in the process. :thumbsup:

A couple of other things you might want to check as well? You want to check the bridle screws to be sure they are snug. The bridle is a thin plate that covers the tumbler and fly. The bridle should have to screws side by side towards the top of the plate and one towards the bottom right coner that also acts as a pivot screw that holds the sear in place while it pivots. All three screws should only be equally snug.

Another thing to check and keep in mind is both the lock bolts that have already been mentioned. Want to be sure that they are equally snugged down with one no tighter than the other. They don’t have to be gorilla tight but only snug with equal tightness.

Good luck my friend. Please keep us informed?

Respectfully, Cowboy

The Traditions Pennsylvania was the first flintlock rifle that I ever owned. It is the rifle that I had when learning to shoot a flintlock (oh, what a journey!). In my opinion, it is a functional, good rifle to start out with. I knew nothing about how to knap a flint or that the lock was supposed to be removed for proper cleaning, but the grizzled old shooters at the club I belong to took me under their wing and showed me what to do. It can be an accurate 100 yard bullseye shooter if you do your part and I even harvested a deer with it. I sold it at a gunshow and have no regrets because I moved on to better rifles with Siler locks.

Had an excellent weekend of shooting my Penn. I'm really getting the method down tight and this morning I went 18 for 19 shots . The only misfire was all me and I got impatient with charging my pan. Charging my pan is a 2 step process that seems to work very reliably. I first add just a very small amount of powder, then tip the rifle to the left and give some light palm thumps near the lock to allow some powder to enter the touch hole. 2nd is to then add more powder. I'm learning that a little less than 1/2 full is better than excessive powder. For some reason my rifle was shooting very low (about 12" at 50 yds). Raising the rear leaf, and filing the front has put me dead at 50 yds , and I do about a 7" elevation holdover at 100 yds and i'm pretty close. Great learning experience, and having a lot more fun now that i'm getting the hang of a flintlock.

I wanted to say thanks again for all the help! I took the lock and trigger off, and noticed that the trigger mechanism had some minor surface rust and lots of grime”¦I cleaned and lubed everything up, got all the parts moving smoothly, and re-assembled”¦no issues now! When I get time to meet up with my experienced friend, I plan to completely disassemble the lock and trigger mechanism, clean off any burrs, etc., and grease it up. We did this last year with my TC Hawken and it was a night and day difference!

I took my traditions Pennsylvania out to the range last evening”¦shooting from the bench at 25 yards, I had all six shots (except one) within two inches of the bull. They were all high at 25 yards”¦I was using 60 grains of FFF. I solved the issue of my cheek getting hit with the stock by bracing the rifle above my bicep. I had a few issues during my last couple shots with the powder on the pan sparking but not my charge. Is there a preferred touch hole liner I should look into using?

Again, I’m a “novice” but have had the opportunity to shoot with some experienced people over the past couple years, and everyone I spoke with had their own shooting (loading/cleaning) techniques. From what I learned from them, on this forum, and in books; my current steps following a shot include;

Run a TC pre-saturated cleaning patch followed by a dry patch. Insert a pick in my touch hole, add powder (currently using 60 grains”¦down from 80”¦I want to practice with a white tail deer load and was told 60 grains would do the trick), insert a ball with a pillow ticking patch that I saturated with yellow bore butter. I then use FFFF in the pan, knock the side of the gun so some priming powder enters the touch hole but not as much as to fill the touch hole”¦I want room for the pan flash to pass through the touch hole and ignite the load. After my shot, I repeat the same process. I’m very open to comments/suggestions.

In response to Crewdawg445, I agree with you. But before I spent $1,000+ on a flintlock, I wanted to make sure I was going to enjoy the sport. My first gun was a $200 TC Hawken, and I did fall victim to the production flinter blues but learned a bunch. The gun was poorly crafted, most of the wood screws were no longer holding in the wood stock, there is a large gap between the barrel (touch hole) and the pan (I needed to fill in the gap with wax), the cock was too short (striking my frizzen to low), and the sights are not tight and need lots of work”¦(I cannot consistantly hit paper at 25 yards...shoots too high...cannot lower my back sight anymore)...I’m also convinced the barrel is bent ;-)!

I was very hesitant to spend another $200 on a production flintlock but figured I could re-sell the gun when I was ready to upgrade. I’m still learning about what type of flintlock that would suite me the best and also fit my persona as a 18th century NE woodsman (longhunter) ”¦at the last rendezvous I attended, I was convinced my next flintlock should be a smoothbore. At this point, I still have no clue as to where to start looking for a “good” flintlock in the $1,000 price range.