Last Sunday the Traditions .50 cal was shooting a little high, but was grouping. Yesterday it was shooting a lot higher and not grouping at all. Was using all the same condiments, patces, balls, powder, caps. Same procedures. I'm going to put this gun up for awhile and shoot others. Went from one and a half inch groups to about eight inches with no real pattern.
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Frustrating
- Thread starter mushka
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Carefully examine your rear sight if you have an adjustable one, (check for adjustment function)...They are notorious for going bad especially on T/C's
Also check to make sure the barrel is in the breech socket properly. Sometimes people reassemble them incorrectly after cleaning.
Also check to make sure the barrel is in the breech socket properly. Sometimes people reassemble them incorrectly after cleaning.
Even making sure the wedge is in upside right.
I have had that happen before. My best shooter sucked. The next time out is sucked. Then x 5 it still was off. Then 7th or 8th trip out it was back :youcrazy: Couldnt have been me? I was drilling stuff with other rifles?
I finally got out yesterday all alone in the woods. Was sighting in my Hawken(ish) Cabelas .58 for elk. Big groups. I recall shooting 80 last time out and had upped to 110. So I backed of to 80. Grouping 4-5". Hmm thinks me, it's a 2-3 inch gun :hmm: Checked and YEP front sight screw loose. Tightened, 5 shots 3" Now ya gotta understand I was forced to drive the Dakota as the woods is WET now. Also being archery deer season I didnt wanna shoot near camps so had to go in further. Shooting off window frame in passenger seat with 3 leather gloves under barrel got 3" at 75 yds. I'm believeing If I had the Corolla and coulda shot as I usually do I could have got 2". Maybe not been a long dang time since I shot and had to use old pair of glasses (new puppy broke/ate both pairs of mine, as well as alot of other stuff like dressers, clothes baskets, shoes, chair legs, ya know :shake: )
I have had that happen before. My best shooter sucked. The next time out is sucked. Then x 5 it still was off. Then 7th or 8th trip out it was back :youcrazy: Couldnt have been me? I was drilling stuff with other rifles?
I finally got out yesterday all alone in the woods. Was sighting in my Hawken(ish) Cabelas .58 for elk. Big groups. I recall shooting 80 last time out and had upped to 110. So I backed of to 80. Grouping 4-5". Hmm thinks me, it's a 2-3 inch gun :hmm: Checked and YEP front sight screw loose. Tightened, 5 shots 3" Now ya gotta understand I was forced to drive the Dakota as the woods is WET now. Also being archery deer season I didnt wanna shoot near camps so had to go in further. Shooting off window frame in passenger seat with 3 leather gloves under barrel got 3" at 75 yds. I'm believeing If I had the Corolla and coulda shot as I usually do I could have got 2". Maybe not been a long dang time since I shot and had to use old pair of glasses (new puppy broke/ate both pairs of mine, as well as alot of other stuff like dressers, clothes baskets, shoes, chair legs, ya know :shake: )
Something had to change. Reexamine your components you used. Different patch, lube or? What nipple are you using? Sometimes a nipple will open up a little and groups will change. Did you check your fired patches?
Not my post but I had the same exact thing and NO NOTHING CHANGED In fact when the gun came "back" the components were all the same as well. It's like it took a vacation or something. Maybe it somehow got wet/damp, swelled and took a year to dry out? Never figured it out. Was hoping a .36 CVA bobcat would settle in but NOPE. It NEVER has shot a group using any and all combos of lead, cloth, powder and cap. I hear Hoyt wont work on CVA. If he does I would go .38 or smoothie jug choked :idunno:
Have you tried a felt over powder wad under the patched ball? I had a similar problem with a Traditions gun, but this little trick tightened the groups up so they were acceptable and consistent.
I dont recall, put away 3-4 yrs ago in frustration. I will get some and try it
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I'd swap out the nipple. Sure sounds to me like nipple erosion. And yeah, the accuracy drop usually happens that suddenly.
I agree, change the nipple
A couple of weeks ago at the Harris MN 1,000 yard match, right in the middle of my first 15 shot string, I had 6 misses. I checked everything. Pulled the nipple. It looked good. Put a new one in and shot a 9. Shot 3 more relays for the couple of days and did not have that problem anymore.
Fleener
A couple of weeks ago at the Harris MN 1,000 yard match, right in the middle of my first 15 shot string, I had 6 misses. I checked everything. Pulled the nipple. It looked good. Put a new one in and shot a 9. Shot 3 more relays for the couple of days and did not have that problem anymore.
Fleener
BrownBear said:
Not sure your post directed at me. When it happened (and then corrected itself) I did not change nipple.
BUT thats the one thing I have never tried with the .36 :hmm: Gonna give it a try
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azmntman said:
Nah, not directing it at you.... Just got lazy and failed to scroll back to his post before adding my own. But glad it worked for you! :thumbsup:
Col. Batguano
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Some times if you remove your barrel for cleaning and then re-installed, and it gets re-seated, the sights are WAY off from where the gun hit the last time you used it. And you don't even know about it. It's just weird. You pull it again to clean, re-seat, and voilla, everything is fine again. One of the mysteries of ML-ing. That tends to happen with newer guns more than those that have been used a whole bunch though.
Nope. Its not a group it shoots its a pattern. Never grouped yet
Nah, not directing it at you.... Just got lazy and failed to scroll back to his post before adding my own. But glad it worked for you!
:idunno: Dunno yet, you just gave me the idea. I am fast but not that fast LOL
:idunno: Dunno yet, you just gave me the idea. I am fast but not that fast LOL
mushka said:
Welcome to the wonderful world of muzzle loading. No wonder the rest of the world considers us something less than sane.
As others have said, something did change. Finding that element is part of the challenge in this game.
Danny Ross
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Okay you say you were doing every thing the same. What type of powder are you using Black Powder, Pyrodex, something else? Was the weather the same? The reason I ask is because of something that happen to me a few years ago. One week I was shooting the best I had ever shot with the caplock rifle I was using. The next weekend had to go back, because my sights had been knock off when cleaning it (don't ask). Put them back where I thought they should be, so went back to the gun range to make sure. I COULD NOT get it to group for love nor money anywhere on the target. I had been using Pyrodex RS the previous week and the same when I went back. Had some 2F Black Powder with me I used with my flintlock. I thought why not, had always heard Black Powder was supposed to be better. Had shot the Pyrodex RS for some years before this episode. Yeah it was before I found this site to :slap: . Used the Black Powder with the same load as the Pyrodex RS. Next 5-6 shots GROUPED exactly where they were supposed to. The difference between the two weekends, 30 degrees of temperature change and that was the ONLY difference. First weekend it was 65 the very next weekend it was 35, it affected the preformance of the Pyrodex RS. Haven't shot anything but Black Powder since :grin: :thumbsup: . DANNY
I always use GOEF 3F black powder in all my guns. Nothing else. As far as weather is concerned, it was near identical, like it is all summer here. 100+ with some humidity. It's still a mystery to me why it acted like it did. Won't shoot BP tomorrow as dove season opened this morning and it will take up quite a bit of morning time this week.
I am mystified as well.
The odd results you got are the usual results from a too thin patch, waaaaay to slick a lubrication or an inadequate powder charge.
as None of those conditions existed the mystery will continue.
I had something like that happen during my early days and continued to be mystified till I heard myself telling the Range Owner " The only thing I changed was the wiping patch. Lo and behold I checked he new fuzzy flannel wiping patches and found that it was about half as thick as my previous patching and was allowing residue to build up in the barrel even though I wiped between shots. I went back to my original wiping patch material and Bingo, I was back to my tight groups.
That's when I learned that EVERY single thing you do in loading affects the resulting group.
I hated those mysteries but they DID get me to explore further which in the long run is a good thing,
Dutch
The odd results you got are the usual results from a too thin patch, waaaaay to slick a lubrication or an inadequate powder charge.
as None of those conditions existed the mystery will continue.
I had something like that happen during my early days and continued to be mystified till I heard myself telling the Range Owner " The only thing I changed was the wiping patch. Lo and behold I checked he new fuzzy flannel wiping patches and found that it was about half as thick as my previous patching and was allowing residue to build up in the barrel even though I wiped between shots. I went back to my original wiping patch material and Bingo, I was back to my tight groups.
That's when I learned that EVERY single thing you do in loading affects the resulting group.
I hated those mysteries but they DID get me to explore further which in the long run is a good thing,
Dutch
Mushka,
This is not a bad suggestion. A loose rear sight will usually give you an erratic left and right hits..
Put a light scratch on the sight in line with a scratch on the barrel and see if that moves about after each shot..
Your barrel flexes when you shoot and sometimes it is only loose enough to move during the flex. This is for fixed sights. Adjustable sights are a different matter.
Dutch
This is not a bad suggestion. A loose rear sight will usually give you an erratic left and right hits..
Put a light scratch on the sight in line with a scratch on the barrel and see if that moves about after each shot..
Your barrel flexes when you shoot and sometimes it is only loose enough to move during the flex. This is for fixed sights. Adjustable sights are a different matter.
Dutch
