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Centaure Liege Caliber?

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Griz44Mag

70 Cal.
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Messages
4,326
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Location
Republic of Texas, District of Krum
OK, so I picked up a pair of Belgium cap locks from another member here and need a bit of advice.
I cleaned up the locks and triggers, cleaned the barrels until they are slick as snot, got everything working and ready. The nipples are smaller than my rifle nipples, but I got them both to fire a #11 cap to test the locks. The #11 caps are really loose, just floating on the nipple, so I assume these are for a #10? Everything works great! Now it's time to load up with some powder and ball and see if they will shoot. The bores are smooth, and measure right at .482. The guy I got them from thought they were a 45 caliber, but he never actually loaded and fired them. Seems like a .440 or .445 ball is going to be too small even with a really thick patch. So what do the experts on such things have for advice? I assume a smooth bore pistol should be loaded with a tight ball and patch, but with a lot less powder than a rifle. I cannot find anything on these pistols doing internet searches, so I would really appreciate some guidance selecting a ball/patch/powder!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SvhQgAjKjtcaoFbr7
 
I would use 0.457" ball wrapped in a 0.022" thick lubricated patch. That will give you enough patch compression to hold the ball. Other wise you may have to get a custom mold from a source such as Tanner in 0.470 or 0.475". Thinner patching of course.
 
I thought about changing the nipple, but not sure of the thread. It is not the same as the TC rifles I have or the Lyman GPR or the Investarms. I need to try and identify the threads but so far I have not found a single reference source for the pistols. Glad there are 2 of them so if I have a lock issue at least there will be backup parts...
If anyone else here has one of these, I would appreciate any info avaialble, nipple specs, who made the lock, spare parts, etc....
 
The nipples for a TC Hawken rifle use a 1/4-28 thread.

The Lyman Great Plains rifle uses a M6mm-.75 metric thread. These threads are smaller in diameter than the 1/4-28 threads. (.2362" vs .250)

The TC Seneca and Cherokee use a # 12-28 thread. This is .212" in diameter making it smaller than the M6 threads and much smaller than the 1/4" threads.

The Spanish made guns usually use a M6mm-1 thread.
This is the same diameter as the M6-.75 but the threads are spaced at 1 mm (.039") rather than the .75 mm (.0295") spacing of the M6-.75

If you have some measuring calipers or micrometer you can measure the thread diameter. If not, you can take the nipple to your local hardware store and they can do it for you.
 
Yo Griz.
Got about twenty or so .466-.467 hard round balls.
If you'd like to use them to try out that diameter in your pieces gimme a yell with a PO Box or address. Caint just drop by seeing as I left Texas three years ago.
 
GoodCheer said:
Yo Griz.
Got about twenty or so .466-.467 hard round balls.
If you'd like to use them to try out that diameter in your pieces gimme a yell with a PO Box or address. Caint just drop by seeing as I left Texas three years ago.
Hold that thought, and thank you for that offer. A fellow club member here says his dad has a number of old molds from his cowboy days and is going to look through them ans see what sizes he has. If that does not work out I will give you a shout. Thank you!
 
Zonie said:
The nipples for a TC Hawken rifle use a 1/4-28 thread.

The Lyman Great Plains rifle uses a M6mm-.75 metric thread. These threads are smaller in diameter than the 1/4-28 threads. (.2362" vs .250)

The TC Seneca and Cherokee use a # 12-28 thread. This is .212" in diameter making it smaller than the M6 threads and much smaller than the 1/4" threads.

The Spanish made guns usually use a M6mm-1 thread.
This is the same diameter as the M6-.75 but the threads are spaced at 1 mm (.039") rather than the .75 mm (.0295") spacing of the M6-.75

If you have some measuring calipers or micrometer you can measure the thread diameter. If not, you can take the nipple to your local hardware store and they can do it for you.

After trips to several different hardware stores and 2 machine shops, it was decided that the threads are not anything standard, on either side of the pond. I ordered a 7mm x 1mm repair nipple from track with the #11 top, picked up a bit and tap from the tool shed. I opened the hole just a bit, then threaded the hole for a standardized nipple. Worked like a charm. I ordered a second nipple this afternoon and will do the same to pistol number 2 when it arrives. To test the modified pistol, I loaded 10gr of 3f and topped it with a .454 ball with a .018 patch and put it into a pile of newspapers in the garage. Gun went bang, ball exited the barrel, dog screeched like I had kicked her and ran for her bed, the smoke alarm went off and the wife screamed and come hustling to see if I had kilt myself.
Yup, just another day in the bear's den.
 
FINALLY!
Went to a public range that had tactical bays and rented a bay to do the test shoot of these old pistols. I loaded with 20gr and a .454 ball to initial testing just to make sure there would be no missing fingers on the trip home. That went well so I went up to 30gr. Got a nice snappy recoil and the 12" steel plate did the jig, so I held there. After running the range with .454 balls and .010,.015 and .018 patches I got some loads that were easy to manage and produced some consistant hits. Seems these pistols have a bigger muzzle than main part of the barrel. Kind of strange, but it is what it is.
After 15-20 balls down each, I decided to keep both of them. What a hoot! These little critters are fun.
Pistol #1 likes 30gr of fff and .018 patches.
Pistol #2 likes 35 gr of fff and .015 patches.
I was able to produce 2" groups at 10 paces shooting one handed with arm fully extended.
Video is a bit grainy, was uploaded by a friend from his cell phone.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YRK7QW31r3GJB86z7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dVmot7ngDb56RYwF8
 
azmntman said:
Nice. The 2nd video is great. :thumbsup:
Second video is my friend shooting a muzzleloader for the first time in his life. It was my super heavy 1" by 33" Green Mountain barreled 50 TC. He left with a smile and a burning urge to go shopping. We may have a new smoker very soon!
 
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