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Army Rig?

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Anyone make a U.S. military rig for an 1858 Remington New Model Army .44 caliber cap and ball percussion revolver?

Looking for a holster, belt, and a cartridge box for pistol or carbine to hold extra ammo and cleaning supplies. Looking for a Civil War era rig.

Any makers?
 
Almost all Civil War sutlers have what you need. Right hand holster butt forward, pistol cartridge box, belt buckle of your choice and a cap pouch for musket caps which would have been worn with the rig. Quality of the gear can vary quite a bit from one seller to another. Confedrate gear can be brown though captured Union gear was oftn used with a Union belt buckle uside down. A lot of Confederate gear was issued black and if you buy all black you'll find it more versatile. Avoid holsters marked US or CS(A) on the flap.
 
Hi Smokey,

When I began doing WBTS reenacting in 1980, there were not many Sutlers offering TRUE reproductions of this gear. Since I went to the North South Skirmish Association Spring and Fall National Championships and thanks to a bunch of Mentors who collected originals, I was able to examine many original items like this. That allowed me to make "Museum Quality" replicas, EXCEPT I did not have reproductions of the original makers' stamps. That didn't bother me as I didn't want my replicas being "passed off" as originals one day.

The first such item I hand sewed and hand made was a Cap Box and it had both the sheepskin on the inner flap to keep the caps in place and the leather loop for the Nipple Pick. Those two features were not normally found on replica items in those days and many replicas still don't have those original features. I even used ORIGINAL brass closures that were dug as relics and "re-manufactured" them so they could be used again. After I made mine, I made a few more for other people, BUT I had to charge $ 28.00 for mine and wasn't making much money at all, while pretty good machine sewn copies that didn't have these features, were selling for around $ 15.00. However, those were early 1980's prices.

The Sutler by who I joked that I was glad to be put out of the cap box and other period leather items business by, was the Cavalry Shop in Richmond. They use quality leather and pretty good reproduction brass or copper parts where needed and good machine stitching. I hope Hawkeye2 can confirm they are still in business and I think they are, though the Father who began the business passed on some time ago. I actually went to their shop a few times to buy leather gear for some guys in my old Reenactment Unit, though they don't have a "Regular Retail Store." So here is their contact information:

The Calvary Shop
9700 Royerton Dr
Richmond, VA 23228

(804) 266-0898

You most likely will have to leave a message for them to call back.

I would most definitely NOT recommend the cheaper leather goods sold by Dixie Gun Works, though they also have some higher priced and pretty good "middle of the road" leather goods.

On the High End of both Historical Accuracy and Higher/Highest price is found at C&D Jarnigan.

Here are a couple pages from their On Line Catalogue.

Holsters, http://www.jarnaginco.com/pistols and holsters.htm

Main Page to their Civil War Catalogue: http://www.jarnaginco.com/cwmain.html

OK, as to period Belt Plates and Buckles, I personally WOULD NOT advise buying a standard CS or US standard one piece Belt Plate unless you are doing reenactments and have to use that for your unit. I MUCH prefer a 2 Piece Buckle and have worn a couple different ones while reenacting.

The Sutler I most highly recommend for a quality reproduction Buckles and Plates is Hanover Brass Foundry at the following link. While it is easy to find their Confederate ones, the Federal/U.S. Plates and buckles are in the drop down menu under "more" at the top of the page. http://www.hanoverbrass.com/

When I did a CS Infantry Officer Impression, I did not have the over the shoulder cross belt on my "Sword Belt," that was common for both Enlisted and Officer Cavalry Sword Belts. Even though I carried an Original M1850 Foot Officer's Sword, I found there was no need of the cross belt - so I don't recommend buying a full Cavalry Sword Belt for what you want. I do recommend buying the correct type of belt for a 2 piece buckle, though.

Since I was doing an authentic impression, I hand made the “standard” pattern flap holster that was worn on the RIGHT side with the butt forward. Now if you would like to wear the revolver on your Right Side with the Butt to the rear like most modern holsters for Right Hand people, reproductions can be made that way, though you have to be specific when ordering one. That style is also good for “cross draw” use. Though the Military did not issue a holster that was made for Left Hand Use, you can order them made that way, either butt forward or to the rear.

As Hawkeye2 mentioned, a cap box is also necessary. There were smaller “Pistol/Revolver” Cap Boxes for use with Revolvers; though I personally preferred, handmade and used a Musket Size Cap Box as I have large hands and cannot easily get my large fingers into a Pistol Size Cap Box. I also wore a Cavalry Pistol Box on the rear of my Belt that rode on the small of my back. I kept a small powder flask and Wonder Wads in it, as well as loose balls when I fired live rounds. That was one item I purchased from “The Cavalry Shop,” as I did not intend to make reproductions of them. Here is link to Jarnigan’s version of the Pistol Box. http://www.jarnaginco.com/19th cavalry page.html

Hope this helps and if you have more questions, Please ask.

Gus
 
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Thank you for the kind words.

One thing about being a Reenactor and actually wearing a Revolver and leather accessories on a Belt for All Day, every day at living histories and reenactments; one finds out what works and what doesn't. And, yes, even sometimes by doing things the wrong way first. :redface: :haha:

Gus

P.S. For anyone wishing to make their own Holster, Sword Belt, Cap Boxes, etc. - The Cavalry Shop was my "Go To Place" to buy reproductions of all the brass parts needed. Though I used original pieces on my two sword belts, I used the Cavalry Shop's belt hooks, sword hooks, special Post nuts and other items when I made some reproduction belts for others.

Making the period Sword/Gun Belt is not very difficult at all, but only when you can buy the reproduction brass parts. Making your own period Holster is a bit more difficult, but not exceedingly difficult. However, I consider making your own Cap Box and Pistol or Musket Boxes as advanced projects and would not normally recommend trying to make those unless you are a more advanced leather worker.

Gus
 
Thank you, Artificer!! Great info.

I'm thinking a belt, holster, and a carbine or pistol cartridge box to keep spare ammunitions.

I plan to use those quick load rubber tubes as a modernized "paper cartridge" for field use. They can be loaded with powder then a ball stuck in to seal them tight, with a wonder wad pushed in on top the ball. Should be enough room in the cartridge box for a couple full reloads plus cleaning tools.

I am no reenactor, but LOVE quality leather goods. Having a period rig for my '58 Remy would be just awesome. I would be carrying it for field use and camping as well as small game hunting.

Think I'll go with C&D Jarnagin for the holster and cartridge box. Are the carbine cartridge boxes bigger than the pistol boxes? Also I'd still need a belt from somewhere.

Thanks all!!
 
The Calvary Shop stopped doing leather gear quite a number of years back. Carbine boxes are intended to hold carbine cartridges in holes in a wood block. You could make a block to hold quite number of pistol cartridges and a carbine box is a must on a calvaryman's belt. Pistol boxes are empty, narrow and deep, almost difficult to get your hand to the bottom. They don't have a block or dividers inside, only meant to carry packets of pistol cartridges. You could skip that or use it to hold accessories. If you go Confederate you probably could rationlize a civilian holster on the right or a crossdraw, the rest of the outfit could be Union, captured or issued from pre-war stores. Hanover makes the best buckles as Artificer advised.
 
hawkeye2 said:
The Calvary Shop stopped doing leather gear quite a number of years back.

Well, Shucks! I wasn't sure as the last time I went to the Nationals was 2006 and they were still in business. I did check and a number of Units still had them listed as an Approved Sutler, but I guess they have not updated their lists.

Do you happen to know who carries the brass pieces/parts to make Sword Belts, etc. now that the Cavalry Shop is gone?

Thanks.

Gus
 
The Calvary Shop is still around, just no doing any leather gear. Actually they are just a shadow of what they used to be. We bought y wife's cartridge box and cap pouch, both brown, there 25 years ago when my wife started skirmishing.

I believe you'll find a lot of sutlers carrying belt parts but I couldn't say who right now as I bought a munber of finials, belt hooks, sling hooks, etc. many years ago and stashed them for projects and haven't looked for any lately.
 
Smokey Plainsman said:
I see El Paso Saddlery has an 1860 belt:
https://epsaddlery.com/product/1860-eagle-belt/

Will this pair nicely with the aforementioned holster and cartridge box?

The only experience I have with El Paso Saddlery is I purchased and used the 1911 Holster - U.S. Cavalry swivel holster, the “Pershing model” with their matching double magazine pouch on Active Duty in the Marine Corps for about 8 years until we switched over to the M9. As a Leather Worker and as someone interested in period leather, I was extremely pleased with these items both for their quality and how well they worked and stood up.

However, I have never purchased a belt from them and don't know anyone who has. I have no doubt the leather will be good as will be the sewing, but I am not so sure about that buckle - at least for period authenticity.

For about the same price, Jarnigan has the #274 1851 Pattern Waist Belt (NCO) for $99.00 in Black BRIDLE leather and it has an authentic period correct reproduction belt buckle. Just to be sure, I would ask them about it correctly fitting their Holster and Cartridge Box, though I'm fairly sure they will fit correctly.
Scroll down the Left side Menu to "Waist belts & Sword belts" in this link, to find it: http://www.jarnaginco.com/catframe.html

I would also suggest you note the section near the top that states, "We use 1860's period techniques to dye leather. An entire side is dyed at once and allowed three days to fully set up. The drying process makes the finish water resistant as called for by the Ordnance Dept. This way of finishing can cause the dyed surface to turn white in cold weather. This is a common problem in period leather as well. This white can be cleared with an application of white vinegar.

This is all done in order to give you, the consumer the closest copy of the original items as possible."

I know a LOT of people who bought Jarnigan Black or Russet BRIDLE Leather Items over the years and never had it turn white in cold weather. Of course our Winters in Virginia are not as cold as in the Midwest or Up North. Even so if it does turn white, I have been informed the white vinegar clears it right up.


Gus
 
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hawkeye2 said:
The Calvary Shop is still around, just no doing any leather gear. Actually they are just a shadow of what they used to be. We bought y wife's cartridge box and cap pouch, both brown, there 25 years ago when my wife started skirmishing.

I believe you'll find a lot of sutlers carrying belt parts but I couldn't say who right now as I bought a munber of finials, belt hooks, sling hooks, etc. many years ago and stashed them for projects and haven't looked for any lately.

Thank you very much for that information. I haven't checked for years, but I think I still have a couple of dug relic Federal "S" hooks to hang a sword and at least one Confederate one left - that are in plenty good enough condition to still use.

FWIW the Confederate Sword "S" hooks were cast and have a definite reddish tinge colour to them from a higher amount of copper used in the alloy and unless someone is recently making a reproduction, they were/are not available as repro's. I used one for my Confederate Officer's Impression on Black Bridle leather and another for my "Dress Buff/White" Sword Belt for my Sergeant Major of Confederate Marines impression.

I guess I was spoiled being able to buy any brass parts I needed from the Cavalry Shop in the old days. However, that information is appreciated, so when/if I need the parts again, I will know to look elsewhere.

Gus
 
Gang incredible information to be shared here, THANK YOU!!

I think Janigan will suit my needs most finely. I'm going on deployment soon but once I return from the sand box I'll be ordering this kit, I've wanted such a thing for a long time now.
 
May I offer you a few tips on mounting the cap box and cartridge box on your belt?

Sometimes it gets confusing when you first do it and you may not know it is a good idea to WET AND OIL the belt and sliding keeper before you take the belt down and then mount everything on it and then re-assemble it. But before we get into that, though, there is something very important IF you wish to mount the Cap Box on the right side of the buckle - as you wear it on your body.

Cap Boxes are usually made with a loop on the back to go over one single thickness of your leather belt and fit somewhat snugly so they don't slide around on your belt. However, on the right side of the belt you are interested in, there is a second thickness of leather that is the adjustment for when you wear thicker clothing and need to expand the belt size. The second thickness of leather, meant for adjustment in belt size on the right side of the buckle, is folded under the outside piece of leather. That second thickness of leather normally won't go through the loop on the back of the Cap Box and it isn't supposed to do that. If you wish to place your Cap Box in that area of your belt, then you have to be sure it goes over only the “outside” portion of the belt and not that part and the portion of the belt underneath (for adjustment).

OK, one more thing I found from actually wearing this kind of belt for long periods of time. The “Issue” Belts like this normally only came with ONE sliding keeper that went over BOTH layers of the belt, on the right side and near the buckle. So you had to choose between sliding it near the buckle OR sliding it near the hook. I “THINK” it was normally expected to be close to the buckle, but I admit I have never found documentation for it one way or another. Well, I have “a thing” for having more than one Sliding Keepers on Slings, Waist Belts, etc. that I make. I like to have one near the hook and one near the belt buckle. So when I made my Sword Belt, I made TWO Sling Keepers and I REALLY liked that in use. If you even possibly think you might like this, then I would suggest ordering your Belt from Jarnigan with a Second/Extra Sling Keeper.

OK, so once you get your new Waist Belt, Cap Box, Holster and Cartridge Box; what do you do to assemble the whole thing? New leather is not as easy as older/”broken in” leather to assemble your belt and other items, as it won’t bend easily as you get it from the maker. However, there is a great way around this that will also help condition the belt. You must have some good leather preservative oil like PURE Neatsfoot Oil, or my personal favorite “Lexol Leather Conditioner,” a roll of paper towels and a bucket of clean water or some other water source.

First thing is to DUNK the Belt in the water long enough for the water to saturate it, normally only takes about 10 to 20 seconds at most. This will make the belt very pliable and much easier to get the accessories in place. Then take a wad a paper towels and “pat dry” the surface of the smooth and rough sides of the leather. Then work the hook out of the belt and get the extension part of the belt (with the hook on it) through the sliding keeper, out from the right side of the buckle and finally take the sliding keeper off. Then take a small wad of paper towel and get some Oil/Lexol on it. You don’t want it dripping wet with the Oil/Lexol, but just saturated. You will take long soft strokes of this small wad of paper towel with the Oil/Lexol in it over JUST the ROUGH side of the belt (not on the smooth side). After you go over the whole surface of the Rough Side with that, take another wad of Paper Towel and “pat dry” the rough surface of the leather so there is no excess Oil/Lexol dripping off it. (By the way, this wetting procedure, before oiling the rough side of the leather, is the best way to occasionally oil the leather in the future.)

OK, now you have to decide where you want the leather items on the belt because you have to put everything on it from the right side. So the item that will sit closest to the Left Side of the Belt Buckle will go on first. Some Right Hand folks like the Cap Box on the left side close to the buckle and if that is the way you want it, then that goes on first. (BTW, make sure the Cap Box and other items are put on right side up ”“ so you don’t have to take the belt apart later”¦”¦”¦ask me how I know? :redface: :cursing: :haha:) Then if you have a knife sheath you want on the belt, that goes on next. Then the Cartridge Box as that will ride over the small of your back. Then the Holster and finally the one or two sliding Leather keepers. Then the hook goes through the right side of the buckle and under either the one or two keepers and is secured in one of the holes that matches the width of your waist.

If, however you want the Cap Box on the right side of the buckle, then things get a bit more interesting. You would still put the knife sheath on first (if you have one to put on the belt) and then the cartridge box and holster. What comes next will depend on if you have only one Leather Keeper or two and if only one Leather Keeper, where you want it nearer the hook or nearer the buckle. In my case with two Leather Keepers, I put the first Keeper on next followed by the Cap Box and the second Leather Keeper. Then the hook goes through the right side of the belt buckle and back through the first keeper, the Cap Box and the second keeper and is finally hooked into the correct hole. If you only have one Leather keeper, then the order it goes on before or after the Cap Box will depend on where you want it to sit.

Please Trust Me, you will definitely find the Water Wetted and Oiled Belt will be much, MUCH easier to thread through the other items to assemble, than if you had left the Belt dry when doing the above. Try the belt on to make sure the hook is in the correct hole to properly fit your waist and change the position of the hook if it is not. Then let the assembled belt dry INSIDE and out of the direct sun and not near a heat source. I hang mine in a closet with the other clothes pushed well away from it. Allow it to dry 24 hours and then wipe the smooth side of the leather with a wad of paper towels a final time to ensure no oil will come off and onto your clothing. You may wish to wax and buff the Smooth Sides of all the leather items at this time.

For more info on maintaining/preserving the leather, try this link: http://www.jarnaginco.com/leather preservation.htm


One more thing not related to the above information. Since you will be going to the Sandbox soon, please know your service is appreciated by many forum members and I will further suggest you “keep your head in the game” during operations. I’m sure we all hope you will come home safe and sound, soon.

Gus
 
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Sir thank you so much for the information, truly invaluable. I've learned so much from being here there are many people who know so much!! I plan to probably not use a cap box as I won't have so much a need for it but perhaps I'll invest in one just for historical accuracy. Thanks again!!
 
EL PASO SADDLERY! I'll say it again EL PASO SADDLERY!

I've got 2 belts and 7 holsters, plain and fancy, sstraight and crossdraw, and they are THE BEST!

GET THE BEST AND HAVE NO REGRETS!
 
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