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zimmerstutzen 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4888
07-12-18 04:34 PM - Post#1693478    


I remember reading an account by a Mayflower passenger, that it was the plethora of easily available clams that got the ship's lot through the first winter. When I lived in Florida, I attended a US Park Service program about how folks lived in the everglades in the mid 1800's and what they ate. But neither went into how the items were prepared. Was it primarily boiled stews and soups, or steamed, or roasted in the coals. I have been to a "planking" in Virginia, where they roast corn on a fire and have the fish on spikes on a board propped up and exposed to the heat of the fire.

At the Eastern at Vine Valley NY thirty years ago, I steamed 50 mahogany clams in a small cast iron kettle over the fire and some of my neighbors got into a discussion about how HC that was, or was not. (I think they were just jealous)

What was the HC preparation?

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7890
tenngun
07-12-18 05:08 PM - Post#1693482    

    In response to zimmerstutzen

Fish cake- fish and potato fried is well known to eighteenth century, soups are common, roasted and baked fish and fish in pies., lobsters were considered poor eating, chowders of all sorts are mentioned in Melville. Baking in milk was common.

 
sidelock 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1366
07-12-18 08:59 PM - Post#1693492    

    In response to zimmerstutzen

I have often wondered why the Jamestown settlement had a starving year when the James river was full of fish oysters and clams. ???????

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7890
tenngun
07-12-18 10:20 PM - Post#1693496    

    In response to sidelock

Largely because they were afraid to leave the fort walls

 
necchi 
Cannon
Posts: 12472
necchi
07-13-18 01:15 AM - Post#1693504    

    In response to zimmerstutzen

Seafood is kind of a broad term.
Each different kind of meat from salt water like shellfish or fish is prepared differently,, then that's even different of the same from fresh water.
I'm pretty sure people learned historically what worked and what made them sick when preparing foods from water. But the way they did it depended on the source.
Seafood?
JohnT
Molon Labe~


 
zimmerstutzen 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4888
07-13-18 03:08 PM - Post#1693561    

    In response to necchi

Seafood does cover a large food group. Having steamed crabs tomorrow. I'd rather eat clams, but in order to preserve domestic tranquility.....

I imagine deep fried seafood may have been a bit less common since fats/oils were more scarce early on. We steam, bbq or bake most seafood. Never fry it. Although, fresh shrimp skewered and roasted quickly over campfire coals is a special treat.

 
Black Hand 
Cannon
Posts: 7601
Black Hand
07-13-18 03:43 PM - Post#1693565    

    In response to zimmerstutzen

  • zimmerstutzen Said:
...fats/oils were more scarce early on.


Bear oil, Olive oil, lard, butter, others?? Of these, I suspect lard was very common...


 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7890
tenngun
07-13-18 05:46 PM - Post#1693573    

    In response to Black Hand

Frying seems more popular in the south early on and boiling or steaming in the north. I don’t know when clam bakes became common but cooking in a pot stuck in a hole or even just wrapped in something and ground baked is old time pre civilization stuff

 
flehto 
Cannon
Posts: 7861
07-13-18 06:37 PM - Post#1693575    

    In response to zimmerstutzen

Some fish and seafood can be eaten raw....oyster and tuna. Then there's ceviche which is composed of whatever raw seafood and fish is available. cut into small pieces, put in a bowl and squeeze limes over it. The acid in the lime juice cooks the seafood and fish. Salt and pepper are optional. Love the stuff.

My G parents usually had fresh salmon and just salted it while eating.....Fred

 
Black Hand 
Cannon
Posts: 7601
Black Hand
07-13-18 07:15 PM - Post#1693580    

    In response to flehto

  • flehto Said:
Some fish and seafood can be eaten raw....oyster and tuna.


Nearly all saltwater fish & shellfish can be eaten raw, though there is a possibility (though rare) of Anisakiasis. Infection with a Tapeworm can also be a problem. Freshwater fish should be cooked, as they can contain parasites.


 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7890
tenngun
07-14-18 12:40 AM - Post#1693603    

    In response to Black Hand

I’ve eaten my share of raw fish, can’t say it’s my favorite, oyster and clams on the half shell have made their own contribution to my girth, and while I like them preference is for them cooked.
I do like chowder, New England and Manhattan, Bouillabaisse, fish stew, gumbo, ettofette,fin and haddi et al.

 
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6846
Loyalist Dave
07-14-18 06:52 AM - Post#1693619    

    In response to zimmerstutzen

Well a boiling kettle was a pretty standard thing if you had any sort of "kitchen" in the 18th century. So boiling any protein or veggie is always acceptable.

Baking is another very old method, as earthen bake ovens go back to paleolithic times. A "jugged fish" is not out of possibilities or even fish baked into a pie. Stargazy Pie comes to mind although the original was probably made with turnips and not potatoes.

Steaming? Well I took a soldier's camp kettle and put some rocks inside, and almost covered them completely with water...., then we put fresh water mussles in on top, brought the water to a boil, covered the kettle with a piece of leather for ten minutes, and removed it from the fire. Works just fine..., the rocks held the mussles above the boiling water creating a steam chamber. We didn't violate historic materials, but did they steam stuff like that...., unknown.

LD



 
Native Arizonan 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1541
07-14-18 10:17 AM - Post#1693628    

    In response to Black Hand

  • Black Hand Said:
  • flehto Said:
Some fish and seafood can be eaten raw....oyster and tuna.


Nearly all saltwater fish & shellfish can be eaten raw, though there is a possibility (though rare) of Anisakiasis. Infection with a Tapeworm can also be a problem. Freshwater fish should be cooked, as they can contain parasites.




I would be especially careful of salmon, as they are freshwater fish until they reach the size known as smolt when they enter the saltwater. They have been known to carry non-lethal, but still very troublesome parasites.

 
Dragonsfire 
45 Cal.
Posts: 531
Dragonsfire
07-14-18 10:47 AM - Post#1693631    

    In response to Native Arizonan

Nowadays I would never eat raw, everything is polluted, used to eat raw tatar meat/fish back in the 70/80's

 
Spence10 
Cannon
Posts: 6970
07-14-18 11:26 AM - Post#1693635    

    In response to sidelock

  • sidelock Said:
I have often wondered why the Jamestown settlement had a starving year when the James river was full of fish oysters and clams. ???????


Sidelock, you might enjoy this brief history of the early years at Jamestown, including the 'starving times'.

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/winter07/starving....

Spence


 
satx78247 
Cannon
Posts: 6204
07-14-18 01:51 PM - Post#1693644    

    In response to Dragonsfire

I happen to love TX-style PARISI (a sort of "steak tartare" of Alsatian origin, that has been eaten here since the 1840s) but in 2018 the SOLE place that I will buy it from is DZUIKE'S MARKET, 690 Hwy 90, Castroville, TX as the owners are FANATIC about meat inspection & cleanliness.

just my OPINION, satx


 
zimmerstutzen 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4888
07-15-18 06:48 PM - Post#1693727    

    In response to Black Hand

Oils in the early days would have been scarce. Lard requires pigs. I know there were pigs in Philadelphia by 1710, because the Council passed an ordinance about them, but lard would not have been a common thing for an early coastal frontier person to be toting around, and olive oil, would have been imported. In the sea ports such things would be available, but not the coastal islands of the 1600's. perhaps in Northern Florida and Spanish Georgia.

 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 14703
Rifleman1776
07-17-18 11:46 AM - Post#1693882    

    In response to Spence10

  • Spence10 Said:
  • sidelock Said:
I have often wondered why the Jamestown settlement had a starving year when the James river was full of fish oysters and clams. ???????


Sidelock, you might enjoy this brief history of the early years at Jamestown, including the 'starving times'.

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/winter07/starving....

Spence





Another good read on this subject is "The Second Thanksgiving" by Douglas Lloyd McIntosh. This historical novel tells an interesting story starting in 1621. BTW, it is free on Kindle.

 
Cruzatte 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1122
Cruzatte
07-17-18 12:08 PM - Post#1693886    

    In response to zimmerstutzen

Seafood diet? Sure. That's me. I see food and I eat it.

 
nhmoose 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2208
nhmoose
07-17-18 03:25 PM - Post#1693901    

    In response to Cruzatte

Been on that one most my life!

 
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