taking aim

Ive noticed alot of video of people shooting smokepoles aiming skyward and bringing it down to the target.The four clubs I shoot at encourage shooters to bring it up on target so as to prevent sending a round out of the range and down who knows where.
I was never in the military,how do they instruct to bring it onto target?Ive seen a few guys send a round over the hills and far away.

I come down on target, so taught my dad.

We were always taught on the range(USMC) to keep the gun pointed down range pointed up. If a round went off there was nothing to hit because there was nothing down range except those controlling the targets and they were barricaded. I would say it depends on the range too and how far of a clear zone they have behind it. Of coarse a Muzzle loader isn't going to carry as far as a center fire cartridge gun.

The ranges we used in The Corps could be used at least out to 600 yards, if not in a few cases, 1000 yards. My local range if you lobbed a round 300 yards from the firing line, you'd be off property. The range itself is, however, in a very deep draw so you'd have to really be elevated to manage that.

I start over the target, but not at 45 degrees :haha:

LD

Being mainly a hunter, I just put it on the bull and shoot......don't want to get into a time wasting up or down bbl movement habit.

Never did a lot of target shooting except in the Army and then it was as described above.

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what?......Fred

flehto said:

Being mainly a hunter, I just put it on the bull and shoot......don't want to get into a time wasting up or down bbl movement habit.

Never did a lot of target shooting except in the Army and then it was as described above.

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what?......Fred

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Exactly!...As a hunter you want as little movement as possible. and waving a barrel up and down is a sure way to see that white tail waving at you.

I concur. Same as with a bow. I draw straight back with the arrow pointed in the direction I am going to shoot.

I'm a hunter too, and it's up and shoot to minimize movement. I'm wella acquainted with "coming down" on a target from range shooting, but there's an inherent problem in the field: In doing so game at even moderate ranges is concealed by the raised gun. Not so good.

I tend to bring it up slightly as I aim so I can keep the target in sight as I draw a bead.

The last time I was to an actual range was in 1972 and we shot revolvers for qualifying for the Sheriff's Dept.
I've never really thought about it so I just shoot.

I started shooting when I was 11 and it's just natural now.

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what

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My ranges have adequate bunkers or backstops with farmland beyond. I start low obtaining sight picture on the grass ground while raising to the target. My eyes do not focus a sight picture against a black target center. When I reach the target the sight picture should be there. Raising versus lowering (if it is safe beyond) to me is still better for muscle control. While raising you are exerting more muscle to raise and can just ease the tension. In reverse, lowering a gun, the muscles are relaxing and then have to tense up the muscle control to stop. Just my point of view. Really whatever a guy uses that works for him safely is the way to go.
Flintlocklar :wink:

I bring muzzle up and on target. In blind I keep muzzle straight ahead to minimize movement.

When target shooting I start just a little above the target a few inches and slowly bring it down to the bullseye. I find it harder if I start below a few inches to bring it up. I suppose gravity has something to do with it.

flehto said:

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what?......Fred

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Your right, hunters point, acquire and shoot.
While hunting the elusive "X" is a different game indeed.
Top shooters understand the human physical aspect of each shot. Someone mentioned muscle fatigue and it's real, we humans have about 15 seconds of holding a gun on target steadily before muscle reaction begins to change a tiny bit lending more waver.
It has been my observation at ranges and competition shooting lines that,, those people that start high and drop down into the target,, always, drop too far and have to lift back up.
All that does is take time and add too muscle fatigue.
Long story short, the top "X" hunters, stand the line with muzzle down and raise their sight picture to acquire the target with none of the oh so cool looking theatrics of lifting the gun way high, shouldering, and slowly lowering the rifle.
:idunno:

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what?.

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A lot of shooters and shooting coaches emphasize that no one can hold a rifle absolutely still. So they teach to let the sights come down to your aim zero then shoot. If you try to point exactly at the 'X' and hold you will wiggle off point and end up with a nine or bad ten. The 'coming down' technique allows one to focus mentally on the shot and exhale then hold yer breath until your shot is made. It all comes naturally after about 10,000 rounds of practice. :grin:

BTW: That "absolutely still" comment comes with an exception. I have known a couple champion shooters whose rifles, I swear, couldn't be pulled off center if you did chin ups on the barrel while they were sighting.

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what?......Fred [/quote]

Nothing at all.

The average person after taking a couple of deep breathes and exhaling slightly has about seven (7) seconds of air left in their lungs to get steady and release the shot. After 7 seconds their eyes run out of oxygen and the body starts to move about.

Lowering the barrel is wasting time and oxygen.

Top Bad Habits of Shooters

1. Not Looking At The Sights
2. Holding Too Long
3. Improper Grip Or Position
5. Anticipation
6. Lack Of Concentration
7. Anxiety
8. Vacilation (Plain Laziness)
9. Lack OF Follow Through
10. Pressure

flehto said:

Never did a lot of target shooting except in the Army and then it was as described above.

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what?......Fred

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Hi Fred,

You may remember Military Right Hand Target Shooters are trained to face slightly angled to the right of their target and point the barrel upwards at the beginning of the Offhand position while they "seat" the butt plate in their shoulder in as perfectly uniform of position as possible for every Offhand Shot. Then they twist their body so the sights align on target and that twisting "locks" their upper torso as much as possible. Then they check for their Natural Point of aim. If that is off, they readjust their feet as necessary and do it all again, before firing a shot. I did that most of the time whenever I competed with ML Rifles or my old Brown Bess Carbine.

For Combat or Hunting and since one can't normally use their natural point of aim, in aiming I come up from below the vital zone to the point I want to aim at and as others have mentioned, you don't lose the target area.

I was also taught by some older Marine Combat Veterans to begin pulling the trigger when you got to the enemy's crotch, as you raised the rifle or combat shotgun. This because Military Trigger Pulls are heavier than on civilian rifles, even though one hardly notices it with Adrenaline surging in combat. That way the rifle or shotgun would go off when the sights were in the enemy's torso. It even worked for me with a .45 Pistol, otherwise I would probably not be here today to write about it.

Gus

flehto said:

As a point of interest, the up or down bbl movement accomplishes what?......Fred

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Specialized shooting, but I developed the habit over four decades of shooting deer from boats on the ocean and shooting at targets in the water from shore. In the one case YOU are moving up and down and in the other the target is moving up and down.

If sights are coming down relative to the target, you can't see so well and there's an impulse or bad habit of "slapping" the trigger rather than anticipating the movement as you do with other moving targets. On the rocking boat it is especially challenging because all "rocks" are not created equally, and the "vector" and velocity of each can be different. If the target is not coming to the sights from above before shooting, you're frankly in trouble.

The habit has spilled over onto dry land shooting at still targets. You just shoot what you're used to. I haven't compared up or down to see if there's some statistical jeewhiz magic making one better than the other. All I can say is that if I had to switch now my shooting would go to hell while I was learning.

A little more for Fred, et all, on pointing the muzzle up when beginning the offhand position in target shooting.

Over many years of watching rifle shooters compete in modern high level competition, including the National Matches, I've noticed that many of them (and especially the WINNERS) have a very involved habit/system of getting ready for each offhand shot. They have to, because if they don't go through their own often elaborate "ritual" to prepare for each individual shot, they are likely to make a mistake during their 20 Offhand Shots and that's what separates the Winners from the Losers at the highest level of competition.

I've seen the same thing at North South Skirmish Association National Competitions and during International Muzzleloading Competitions, including the World Championships.

Though in most Muzzle Loading Target Shooting, we only shoot 5 to 10 rounds Offhand for a match, it is still a good idea for one to develop his/her own "preparation ritual" for each round fired, to get the highest score possible.

Gus

I was in the Marines in the late 50s and spent a lot of time on the range with an M1 Garand. I really don't remember any specific directions on offhand shooting with regard to coming down on a target but that is how I did it. That M1 weighed 9.5 pounds empty and almost 10 pounds with a full clip of 8 rounds. It was just natural for me to start with the muzzle slightly above the target, ease the muzzle down to the top of the paper and then slowly ease down until the sights were on the bull. I would then squeeze off a shot at that point. Was it a USMC approved method? I don't remember, it's been way too many years but it is how I did it.