Kentucky rifle

Hello,
I am new to this forum as I just go approved.
So I bought a traditions kentucky rifle kit and i have only a couple of things to do to it and one is to drill the holes in the barrel pins that hold it to the front of the stock and how do you center up a hole like that i have a drill press and i have to get the bit to fit it but i don't know how to drill the hole for it to be just right to knock the pins in.

ryancrowe92 said:

Hello,
I am new to this forum as I just go approved.
So I bought a traditions kentucky rifle kit and i have only a couple of things to do to it and one is to drill the holes in the barrel pins that hold it to the front of the stock and how do you center up a hole like that i have a drill press and i have to get the bit to fit it but i don't know how to drill the hole for it to be just right to knock the pins in.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum, Ryan!!

Since you are new to the forum, I'm sure you didn't realize your thread belongs under "The Gun Builder's Bench" sub forum, as it deals with any kind of work on the guns. So don't be surprised if/when a moderator moves it there, OK?

Do you have a pair of Dial Calipers?

Gus

My dad has a digital set and this thread may belong in the gun builders thread but i was going to post this because i was wondering about the ammo and the charge of powder i needed to use because the guns almost done.

You should use round balls slightly smaller than your caliber size. If you have a .45 you would start with a .440 round ball. The ball is patched to fit tightly in the barrel. For powder charges start with your caliber in grain measurement. So if you have a .45 use 45 grains of powder. Rule of thumb is 3f powder for .45 and smaller 2f for .50 and up. But lots of folks use 3f for the larger calibers.

Read the locked post above about "Flintlock Shooting Tips" all the info you need to know in there.

ryancrowe92 said:

My dad has a digital set and this thread may belong in the gun builders thread but i was going to post this because i was wondering about the ammo and the charge of powder i needed to use because the guns almost done.

Click to expand...

I am not trying to be nitpicky, but questions on powder loads normally belong in the General Muzzleloading Forum. Please understand I am passing these tips so folks here will see your posts and respond to them.

With a digital caliper and with the barrel outside the stock, you take the measurement from the top of the barrel to the center of the barrel lug/loop and write it down for each lug/loop, as the measurements may or probably will be different for each one. Take a Square and a Black Magic Marker and run lines up the sides of the barrel that correspond to the center of each barrel lug/loop. The lines should run on up the angled sides of the barrel near the top, because you are going to use them as sight lines to drill the holes.

Since the barrel has a flat top, I use at least a well squared block of wood that is clamped on the drill press table. By pressing the barrel back into the block, it should keep your drill bit parallel to the barrel and ensure it will go through the stock correctly. Take the measurement you wrote down for distance to the center of the barrel lug/loop and use the top set of caliper jaws to measure from the wood block to the stock. Use the caliper jaw to scrape the wood of the stock while sighting on the marked line on the barrel, to show you where you need to drill. You can use center punch or awl to mark the position of the hole on the stock. I prefer to begin drilling the hole with a center drill bit than finish going through the wood/lug/wood with a longer bit. I also like to put a piece of thick leather or wood under the side of the stock that lays on the drill press table, so you don't get "break out" as the drill bit comes through the opposite side of the stock.

Gus

Use your Dad's calipers to measure the land to land diameter of the barrel. You want a ball that measures 0.010" less than the measured diameter. Then you need cotton patching of about 0.015" thick. At this time, spit can be used for the patch lubricant.With a flint lock, you need real black powder. Substitutes simply do not perform acceptably.

Hopefully you have a large enough table on the drill press to support your stock and the barrel. You should take the sights off as the top flat ot the barrel needs to be located on the fence on the table. Then you locate the barrel under lugs so the 1/16" drill bit is centered on the lug. A stop needs to be placed on the fence to locate the muzzle. The drill depth gauge shold stop as the drill bit touches the under lug. Install the stock, set the muzzle on the setup and with the top flat against the fence you are ready to drill halfway through. Set up for the other side and drill through.

Much more information can be learned on this forum. Look up Dutch Schoults' Black Powder Accuracy instructions. Well worth spending the modest charge.

You should not need to drill any holes or to drill the pin(s) that hold the barrel to the stock.

The nose of the stock is held to the barrel by the nose cap which traps a protrusion of wood at the muzzle. The nose cap is screwed to a threaded hole in the bottom of the barrel.

Now, to get to the shooting of your rifle:

Because it is a flintlock, you can NOT use ANY of the modern synthetic black powders to prime the pan or to propel the projectile.
Basically, all of the synthetic powders like Pyrodex, Triple Se7en, Black Mag, etc all have too high of an ignition point and burn too slowly when they are outside of a barrel to do the job.

Only real, black powder will ignite in the pan with the "flash" that is needed to fire the main powder charge.

Likewise, only real black powder will ignite reliably inside the barrel when the priming in the pan flashes.

Real black powder cannot sit on a shelf at a gun store. It must be locked up in a special box by the store and many times the clerks at the store don't even know they have it so, ask the owner or manager of the store about it.
I should add, many gun stores don't even have it because of the "lock up" requirement, insurance costs and low sales so, call ahead. Talk to the manager and make sure he knows your asking about real black powder. Mention brand names like GOEX, Schutezen and Swiss.
Your gun will like 3Fg powder but 2Fg powder will work almost as well.

With that out of the way, as another member already pointed out, these guns are made to shoot solid lead, round balls.
You will need balls around .440" in diameter for a .45 caliber gun. .490 diameter balls work great in a .50 and .530 diameter balls work in a .54.

The ball will require a cloth patch to grab the rifling. This patch needs to be strong and cotton works best. T-shirts are too flimsy and seldom work well (although they do work nicely for cleaning patches).
Look for unlubricated factory made patches about .015 thick or buy some red/white or blue/white striped "pillow ticking" at your local Wal-Mart or sewing store.

The patch will need a lubricant on it.
Store bought things like WonderLube are OK but olive oil, vegatible oil, Crisco, and Cold Cream if you can stand the smell will also work.

You will need a powder measure of some kind.
There are many on the market but if you have an old spent cartridge case, it can be used.

Follow this link to a topic about cartridge cases

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/247958/

If your gun is a .45, like another member said, start with about 45 grains of powder in the barrel.
Somewhere between a 45 grain target load and a 80 grain hunting load you will find one that shoots much better than other loads. It takes some time and shooting to find out which load works best.

edit: I need to stress the need to clean your gun after it is fired.
Black powder fouling is extremely corrosive when it gets damp and just the humidity in a room is enough to dampen it.
Clean the gun as soon as you possibly can after you've shot it.
Use plain water with a little dish washing soap added to it to cut the patch lube.
When it is clean, thoroughly dry the bore and apply a very light coating of gun oil to protect the bare steel.
Have fun and don't be afraid to ask questions.
That's what we're here for.

Grenadier,
Just back from 4 or 5 dis in intensive care. I found that while 8 people took your advice and sent in their hard earned cash, I was told of only thereof the purchases were told to me so that I could make good on the sale..
My daughter who is not going blind is searching the missing names out and we hope to locate it all.

Reason for Hospital was major difficulty in breathing, which continues I will longer along trying to find an end run about this frightening situation..
Any questions aced can be read to me and my nswers dictated
Love to you all.

Dutch

Mine were predrilled for pins but that was some time ago. Maybe the kits have changed.

Leave them long so as you work on the gun they are easy to pull out. Only cut the pins down to size when your applying the finish. A good coat of wax in the barrel channel protects it well and after finishing you should not have to remove it from the stock. Maybe just every few years to wax the channel again.

You certainly can do it that way, but I like to have pencil lines drawn on the stock that outline my lug target area for my holes. This is ALWAYS easier when the fore end is still square too.

You'll be ok if the hole is a little on the high side, but you don't want to be too low, or else the hole in the lug won't be fully supported with metal. With the thick webs of these kits now a days, you shouldn't have any trouble hitting it. Just remember to start your hole with a punch so you avoid drill bit walking on you as it grabs and starts to bite.

One other thing. You should drill your wood first with no metal in there. THEN put the barrel in. (Make sure to clamp it, but not too hard, because you'll want to be able to seat it with hand pressure, as well as leave some room for the wood to swell a little during finishing.) Those small 1/16" bits aren't very stout to begin with so it could easily bind on you and break the bit as it is breaking through the back side of the metal tab. Brass is the worst for binding and breaking bits, but steel is pretty good at it too.

Once your holes in the lug are drilled, you'll want to take a needle file and elongate them along the axis of the barrel a little. You want to leave a little room for the barrel to move in the stock, or the wood to expand and contract seasonally. Don't worry about the stock getting sloppy or loose in there. The tang bolt will hold it snug.

Solution!

All new orders were being sent to my Junk file.

All found, all settled, The Agony is abated.

Dutch

Grenadier1758 said:

Use your Dad's calipers to measure the land to land diameter of the barrel. You want a ball that measures 0.010" less than the measured diameter. Then you need cotton patching of about 0.015" thick. At this time, spit can be used for the patch lubricant.With a flint lock, you need real black powder. Substitutes simply do not perform acceptably.

Hopefully you have a large enough table on the drill press to support your stock and the barrel. You should take the sights off as the top flat ot the barrel needs to be located on the fence on the table. Then you locate the barrel under lugs so the 1/16" drill bit is centered on the lug. A stop needs to be placed on the fence to locate the muzzle. The drill depth gauge shold stop as the drill bit touches the under lug. Install the stock, set the muzzle on the setup and with the top flat against the fence you are ready to drill halfway through. Set up for the other side and drill through.

Much more information can be learned on this forum. Look up Dutch Schoults' Black Powder Accuracy instructions. Well worth spending the modest charge.

Click to expand...

How do you measure land-to-land with a caliper? Unless you have an even number of l/g, you're going to get one land and one groove in your measurement, aren't you? I think my rifles have five each. IOW, opposite each land is a groove. Am I misunderstanding this?

You need an even number of lands and of course grooves for the calipers to work.

The proper tool to measure the bore with an odd number of lands and grooves is a ball gauge. It is a tool that can expand to fill the bore touching the lands and it can be set to remove and measure. Telescoping gauges are T shaped and are used to measure inside dimensions that can't be measured with calipers. The expandable part is wide enough to bridge the groove and the other side will rest on the land.

Another means is to use the shank end of a drill bit to find the diameter drill that fits the bore while the next size larger is too large to enter the bore. This is limited to fractional size approximations unless you have a letter sized set and then the largest size "Z" is 0.413". A 7/16" is 0.4375", a 29/64" is 0.4531".

What is marked on the barrel?

Calipers??? Good luck op:

Calipers can be good enough if that's all you have.

Back from the Hosptal, 2 weeks been water boarded twice, apparently going to live a bit mor.
Not getting oldight suck a bit, but what I am doing is worst than any human imagination.
Love to you all.
a Very very weak Dutch Schoultz

Hang in there Dutch. We're pulling for ya.

atriot: atriot: atriot: