volume measure accuracy

We spend a lot of time discussing the relationship between weight and volume measures, whether volume measures can be consistent and repeatable, and so forth. I’ve always strongly believed volume measures give more than adequate measurements for most of our shooting. I ran a little experiment yesterday to see if I could shed some light on that question.

I have a deer antler volume measure I use for several guns and several loads. I’ve drawn a couple of lines inside it for different ones for both powder and shot. I hunted with my 20 gauge smoothbore yesterday, and one line in the measure marks weighed volumes for 67 grains of 2f powder and 1 oz./437 grains of #5 shot. I shot a squirrel and reloaded with that measure in the field, using it just as I usually do, not obsessing over hitting the line perfectly, because I know it’s not critical. I got no more shots, but instead of shooting out the load as usual, I took it home and pulled it, just to save the shot and powder. Thinking about the volume measure accuracy question at home and curious to know how well the measure had worked, I was careful not to lose any of the powder or shot. I was surprised. I recovered 67.7 grains of powder and 431 grains of shot.

Volume measures work very well. This is only one example, of course, one measure, one load, one guy doing the loading, and proves nothing. Still, I think considerable confidence in our loading with volume measures is justified.

Spence

Years ago i tried weighing my loads. Sometimes i would get a 1/8-1/4" better group with weighed charges, sometimes not. For me weighing charges was not worth the time and/or effort.

Thanks for this report Spence. Isn't it excellent that we can get great results without a lot of fuss and worry?

It's surely remarkable how closely your volume measure hit the nail on the head! :thumbsup:

Thanks for sharing, Skychief. :hatsoff:

Skychief said:

Isn't it excellent that we can get great results without a lot of fuss and worry?

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I'm afraid a high percentage of ML shooters bring a lot of fuss and worry with them from the modern world and never figure out it's not necessary. :grin:

Spence

Your are right, minute of dead animal close is OK, minute of x ring does! Shouting from the mountain top won't change there is a difference between hunting accuracy and target accuracy.

Michael

George said:

Skychief said:

Isn't it excellent that we can get great results without a lot of fuss and worry?

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I'm afraid a high percentage of ML shooters bring a lot of fuss and worry with them from the modern world and never figure out it's not necessary. :grin:

Spence

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Absolutely :thumbsup:

Blood shooters with glass preweighed loads, miced patching, brass loading tubes and galas muzzles can out shoot me every day of the week that’s for sure. In truth I don’t think I would be able to notice the difference between a weighed charge weighed ball and super consistent greasing and patching.
Can you notice it? sure can, consistency counts but I have my level of shooting that’s unlikely to improve, pulse I like my antler, wood and brass measures.

antler, brass, wood, rolled paper, and/or cut cane got the job done for hundreds of years before the self contained cartridge

There's a few Olympic gold medalists in the world who shoot targets, and there's a whole lot of folks who shoot squirrels and other critters for the table. I don't think the outcome when trying to put critters on the table changes much when and if the Olympians take the field. I doubt the animals react differently when hit by a shooter and a rifle that can put each ball into the same hole at 50 yards vs. being hit by the shooter and the rifle that shoot just under a 4" group at 50 yards. It may matter for medals, but not for the pot. :wink:

LD

I agree :thumbsup: All of those itty bitty groups last until you use a new lot of powder, slightly different patch, more or less lube...DON'T overthink it :nono:

Volume is what I use. But I verify with a beam scale.

One caution - I had a brass measure made in Italy that was marked with loads. The "100 gr" mark threw 120 gr of FFg and 127 gr of FFFg by my RCBS 5-10 scale. That's pretty poor calibration.

I've had the same experience with adjustable measures, really unreliable calibration. The variance can be enough to be dangerous, IMHO, so I verify every setting with a scale, just as I do with any kind of volume measure,

Spence

Wow, now I am really confused! You check your measure for calibration? Why do you think target shooter weigh their charges. No matter what kind of device is used it is difficult to get charges exactly the same each time for hunting, woods walks, some off hand shooting it does not matter one or two grains difference is ok, but X shooting bench shooting they need to be the same. Checking your measure when changing cans is also a good idea. I have had a can change by five grains.

Michael

meanmike said:

Wow, now I am really confused! You check your measure for calibration? Why do you think target shooter weigh their charges.

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I don't understand why you are confused, but I'll take your word for it.

I know why target shooters weigh their charges. I'm surprised to hear you don't.

Spence

I do! What I don't understand is how in one post you say it does not matter then, well I check my loads on a scale.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my post.

Michael

Stumpkiller said:

Volume is what I use. But I verify with a beam scale.

One caution - I had a brass measure made in Italy that was marked with loads. The "100 gr" mark threw 120 gr of FFg and 127 gr of FFFg by my RCBS 5-10 scale. That's pretty poor calibration.

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Me personally, I wouldn't even consider loading over 90 grains, so I would never have to worry about poor calibration. Stay with whatever the mark, and consistency will take care of the rest.
I guess a target shooter though, would have checked calibration from the git-go.

meanmike said:

What I don't understand is how in one post you say it does not matter....l

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Now you have me confused. Where did I say that?

Spence

Are you still looking for where I said that, meanmike? I'm really curious about it.

Spence

Jimbo47 said:

Stumpkiller said:

Volume is what I use. But I verify with a beam scale.

One caution - I had a brass measure made in Italy that was marked with loads. The "100 gr" mark threw 120 gr of FFg and 127 gr of FFFg by my RCBS 5-10 scale. That's pretty poor calibration.

Click to expand...

Me personally, I wouldn't even consider loading over 90 grains, so I would never have to worry about poor calibration.

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Point being - if you had that measure set at "90 gr" you would be shooting 114 grains.

Sorry, I have been at Dr appt all day. I will not dodge your question. I am having surgery next tue and have to have all the test done tomorrow. I had knee replacement in 2016 and while at a shoot last week a part of the replacement came loose. What pain. I will look for your stuff tomorrow afternoon.

Michael