Two Ruined Guns

You don't see too many muzzleloaders in this area. I've only met one other person in the area that shoots them. I recently went to the range with a coworker and let him shoot one of my GPRs. He's a Vietnam vet and had never shot a muzzleloader before.

He enjoyed shooting it and showed interest in buying one. He called me at work the other night. He was excited since a friend of his had two muzzleloaders. They had belonged to his father and he was be willing to sell them. He asked if I would look them over to see if they were worth buying.

He brought them over today. Sadly they were in horrible shape. One was a T/C Hawken and the other was a CVA that I believe is a Mountain Rifle. Both were .50 cal. Both barrels were covered in rust and the bores were heavily rusted. I couldn't get a patched jag into either one. The lock on the CVA would not stay cocked and the nipple on the Hawken was seized up. The stocks would need to be sanded down and refinished.

It was sad to see two nice guns in such horrible condition. Especially when they are so uncommon in this area. When he arrived he told me he was thinking about offering $200 per gun. My advice to him was to offer $40 for the T/C and refinish the stock. Then try to find a reasonably priced barrel for it.

This is probably a fairly common occurrence in areas where muzzleloaders are more popular. Anyone else have similar experiences?

Due to the fact that most younger BP shooters/hunters prefer modern inlines, sidelock frontstuffers will usually have several birthdays on a used gun rack, waiting, waiting, waiting.

I've been able to buy several such sidelocks for a song - most in very good shape, though.

Ditto for my neck of the woods. 99% of the time when you run across a muzzleloader either in a pawn shop/gun shop/gun show or maybe shown one by a friend when you look in the barrel it looks like it has snowed inside. Most around here are either too lazy to properly clean one or dont know what properly consists of :idunno:

He could go for a rebore or maybe freshon up for the bores but I wouldn't give much for them.

my first was such a gun. shoots ok now, but i didn't know what to look for when buying a used muzzleloader. it is a candidate for a rebore, but I'm in no hurry

IMO, if he had $400 to spend on them, I'd pony up the extra money and buy either a GPR kit or a new GPR. I think he'd come way out in front in the long run.

Snakebite said:

IMO, if he had $400 to spend on them, I'd pony up the extra money and buy either a GPR kit or a new GPR. I think he'd come way out in front in the long run.

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+1

Im no expert but that's my call too Though I didnt think you could touch a new GPR for that price

Sadly, most of the muzzleloaders I've seen that were for sale have been mistreated by not cleaning them.

I think it stems from someone wanting to try black powder for hunting.

They shoot a few rounds, take it on a hunt and if they are unsuccessful they bring it home and toss it into the closet and forget about it.

Then, there are the lazy types who take their muzzleloader out and fire it a few times and bring it home and say, "I'll clean it tomorrow."

Of course, tomorrow never comes so a day turns into weeks, weeks into months and months into years.
They often have gotten away with this sort of thing with modern smokeless guns but by the time they get around to actually cleaning it, the bore, and often the rest of the barrel are badly rusted.

Faced with this, many do their best to scrub the bore and steel wool the rust off of the outside and then they try to sell it.

For what it's worth, if your friend has the $400 to spend he should look at some of the Traditions or Lyman guns.
Buying one new can save a lot of headaches.

I actualy love the ritual of cleaning my guns, mine are smoothbore flinters but to me its very relaxing

Adui said:

Snakebite said:

IMO, if he had $400 to spend on them, I'd pony up the extra money and buy either a GPR kit or a new GPR. I think he'd come way out in front in the long run.

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+1

Im no expert but that's my call too Though I didnt think you could touch a new GPR for that price

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GPR's seem to be in the $600's range. I see that Dixie Gun works is selling the Lyman Trade Rifle for $470.

Actually Track of the Wolf has both rifles I mentioned in stock for a little less than DGW.

spudnut said:

I actualy love the ritual of cleaning my guns, mine are smoothbore flinters but to me its very relaxing

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Gosh that's a relief !
I thought I was the only one . :rotf:

spudnut said:

I actualy love the ritual of cleaning my guns, mine are smoothbore flinters but to me its very relaxing

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I agree I also love to shoot my muzzle loaders and I also love to clean them but not indoors because of the smell which is a annoyance to the family
Feltwad

Feltwad,
I've found that a little "pre-cleaning" before leaving the range dramatically lowers the aroma generated when I clean indoors from what it was otherwise.

Don Steele said:

Feltwad,
I've found that a little "pre-cleaning" before leaving the range dramatically lowers the aroma generated when I clean indoors from what it was otherwise.

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Yes I agree which I sometimes flush out the bore with car window wash to get ride of the thick .But I am one of the old school who prefers when I get Home to give the bore a good scrub with hot water .
Feltwad

but not indoors because of the smell which is a annoyance to the family

I dont mind annoying the family :idunno: just funny that way. They outta love the smell just like me :grin:

Personally, I would offer the cash, and then enjoy bringing one of them back to shootable condition. :wink:

I'd get the TC and submerge that barrel into a PVC container of Evaporust, and see what's left. Might end up with rifling that still works, but proably would end up with having Mr. Hoyt bore it out to .55, and thus end up with a 28 gauge, smooth rifle, for well under $200. Follow that up..., find an aftermarket drop-in barrel, and you then have a rifle system, and still be less than a new GPR.

:hmm:

LD

I would go for50dollar each and go to Deer Creek production and pick up a barrel for the CVA Mountain rifle

Louisk said:

Adui said:

Snakebite said:

IMO, if he had $400 to spend on them, I'd pony up the extra money and buy either a GPR kit or a new GPR. I think he'd come way out in front in the long run.

Click to expand...

+1

Im no expert but that's my call too Though I didnt think you could touch a new GPR for that price

Click to expand...

GPR's seem to be in the $600's range. I see that Dixie Gun works is selling the Lyman Trade Rifle for $470.

Click to expand...

Guess I should have been more clear, what I meant was he already has $400, add another $200 or so for a new rifle or kit. I didn't mean to insinuate you can buy a new GPR rifle for kit for $400. 20 or 30 years ago you probably could but not today.

Back when I first got into this, in the late 1970s, I was looking at buying a TC Hawken when I met someone who was big into muzzleloading and he suggested I find a custom rifle maker and see how much it would cost for a custom rifle. TC's were going for around $250 at the time, I ended up paying $500 for a Hawken with a Douglas XX barrel, Ron Long triggers and lock and a P++ piece of wood built by Davy Boultinghouse (some of you may have heard of him). My point is that for a little extra (or a lot extra now days) you can get a nicer rifle, especially if you're looking at $400 for rusted junk that you're probably going to pay the difference in getting them into decent shape when you could buy something new. Just my opinion, and I know what it's worth. :grin:

I'm going to take a different but similar angle to this. Since we all tend to agree that the guns are in pretty rotten shape, they aren't worth $200 per gun. But, you also have a friendship to think about too. He's likely to be insulted and probably ruin the friendship if you throw out a $40-$50 number, I would suggest you suggest to him that he take them to a couple of used gun dealers or a pawn shop, and see what they will offer him. Tell him (ahead of time) you'll meet or beat any arms-length 3rd party offer that he gets for them. That way it won't be you that throws out the low ball number, but the market.

Personally though, unless you are willing to do a ton of work on them, I really wouldn't want them. Even all fixed up and refreshed they are still only $150-$175 guns (each).