Muzzleloading Forum .....


Contact - Can't Login?
 Page 2 of 2 <12
Login Name Post: Counting Miles        (Topic#307414)
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6608
Loyalist Dave
05-20-18 08:38 AM - Post#1685502    

    In response to tenngun

  • Quote:
It was just an avarage, if your ship was going five knots then in an hour you would run five nautical miles.



No, that means that a) five nautical miles of water had run beneath the ship, as it does not account for currents, nor deflection. In an oncoming current of five knots (for the sake of discussion) your log would show the ship "moving" at five knots, when in fact it was geographically stationary.

A current at an angle, such as when you try to go from the coast of Northern Spain to North America, and encounter what was later called The Gulf Stream, throws off your distance and location, which you can somewhat correct with the sextant. Not bad at first but each day, without correction of some type, the error increases. Navagation with a compass or sun and stars or all three merely keep your ship oriented in the right direction, but don't necessarily correct for the error as it grows.

LD

 
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6608
Loyalist Dave
05-20-18 09:02 AM - Post#1685503    

    In response to juice jaws

I' ve done both land navagation on foot, as well as at sea in a powered rubber boat with only a compass (out of sight of land at night mind you) and there are a lot of variables.

On land, even with a topographic map and a well made compass, "dead reckoning" by paces and by magnetic direction even with correction for the magnetic pole location i.e. deflection, is tough to come within say 30 yards of your target. It's better to (in daylight) cross check your pace and direction with landmarks. My pace on level ground is five feet....I check it every now and then. Going down hill it's larger, going up hill it's shorter, going up a steep hill even less. The same was true even then.

So what you have are historic accounts of the locations of sites, or landmarks, which sometimes are very off. I'm looking for a private fort known as "Baker's Fort" that was a Ranger patrol boundary in the F&I in Maryland, supposed to be 12 miles from Fort Frederick, Maryland in a Northeast direction..., set on a creek. (All trace, at least so far, of that fort are gone) Well there is an old ford that is now a bridge on that creek, but it's closer to 8 miles from the fort though it's the right direction....going on the map to 12 miles you're not near anything that would suggest a fort or the direction is off if you coincide that with the creek..., but if you factor in the rolling terrain, you may account for folks thinking it was 12 miles, and you're at that ford, so that's where I'm looking for something in the fields etc that might suggest a missing structure....see?

The Romans had a wagon with wooden gears when they were marking off distances, BUT they had to keep the wagon as straight as possible and it's been found that the mile markers (which still exist where they lay in some places) are more accurate on a relatively level plain than in hilly terrain.

Still perhaps for folks on foot, if you were told it was 10 miles to point X, and it was over hilly terrain, if it was really 7 miles, but you were equal in fatigue to having walked 10 miles on smooth terrain, did it matter that much to those folks?

In conclusion they were probably gauging time and pace and using a SWAG to give how far they went OR.., went to a known landmark, and used the traditional distance, whether they remarked on the landmark or not....so you get a journal entry of "left the trading post and traveled 12 miles to Jacob's Ford, and camped," because everybody knew it was 12 miles to the ford from the trading post, or you get, "left the trading post heading East by North East, going about 12 miles..." [because they could see Jacob's Ford off to their East when they stopped and made note in the journal though omitted the name of the landmark, and thus knew the accepted distance the post was 12 miles]... or they simply, "Left at noon and went 20 miles by sundown" because they thought their horses had gone that far based on the speed they moved.


LD

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7459
tenngun
05-20-18 12:51 PM - Post#1685525    

    In response to Cruzatte

  • Cruzatte Said:
Apropos of nothing, I once measured my customary walking step at 2ft. 9in. which coincidentally is exactly half my height. I calculated the distance while walking across a football practice field on the Wichita State University campus one afternoon.




That’s a step, a pace is each time your left foot comes down. For some reason the military starts out marching on the left foot. I don’t know if all military did this but the Romans and the navy did.

 
Spence10 
Cannon
Posts: 6843
05-20-18 04:22 PM - Post#1685541    

    In response to tenngun

  • tenngun Said:
That’s a step, a pace is each time your left foot comes down.


Oxford English Dictionary and 3-4 others I've checked define the pace as either one step or two, either the length between alternate feet hitting the ground, 28-30 inches, or the same foot hitting twice, 5 feet. Then you get the geometrical pace, military pace, Roman pace, Welch pace, Greek pace, etc., ad nauseum.

The most usual way it is used in the US is what you call a step. Take one pace forward means take one step, not two.

I can't find how they define it in Italy today.

Spence


 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7459
tenngun
05-20-18 04:55 PM - Post#1685549    

    In response to Spence10

That’s a trueism we use so many words so many different ways. I was useing it here in the Roman 1000 paces to the mile sense.
Spence, I think you enjoy making other have to think to much. You know all human suffering have been caused by people thinking too much don’t you

Edited by tenngun on 05-20-18 04:57 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Spence10 
Cannon
Posts: 6843
05-20-18 06:16 PM - Post#1685554    

    In response to tenngun

  • tenngun Said:
Spence, I think you enjoy making other have to think to much. You know all human suffering have been caused by people thinking too much don’t you


I don't think we are in much danger from that in today's world, tenngun.

Spence


 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7459
tenngun
05-20-18 06:51 PM - Post#1685558    

    In response to Spence10



 
Canute 
40 Cal.
Posts: 217
05-24-18 02:12 PM - Post#1686231    

    In response to tenngun

Thanks, Tenngun. A double pace answers the mystery.

Similar but different, that song lyric we all learned in school: "I've got a mule and her name is Sal, fifteen miles on the Erie Canal..." Mules were worked in six hour shifts towing canal boats and walked a steady 2-1/2 miles per hour, hence fifteen miles.

 
 Page 2 of 2 <12
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Print Topic


520 Views
Welcome Guest...
Enter your Login Name and password to login. If you do not have a username you can register one here

Login Name

Password

Remember me. Help



Login Not Working?...

Registered Members
Total: 31971
Todays
Birthdays
6-20joebiker
Current Quote
"Never on any forum I have ever been a member of, have the fellow members and admins been so friendly, helpful and generous especially to a newcomer."
~ Forum Member

PRIVACY POLICY
FusionBB™ Version 3.0 FINAL | ©2003-2010 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.073 seconds.   Total Queries: 42  
All times are (GMT-5). Current time is 03:42 AM
Top