.32 Troubles - Accuracy

Another .32 caliber topic!

I bought a Traditions Deerhunter .32 caliber rifle awhile back. It was pre-owned but unfired, still in the box.

I have shot the rifle for several weeks now and I'm about ready to toss in the towel.

I'm shooting Goex FFFg. I've used from 10g up to 35g. Changing only one thing at a time. .310 round balls and patches from .010 up to .018 ticking, using Mink Oil lube. I felt the load was going down the barrel too easy so I tried .315 round balls with .018 ticking patches. I cannot get acceptable accuracy from the rifle no matter what I've tried. I'll shoot 2-3 shots with one changeup and think I've finally hit the right combination, then the next shot is like a flyer well out of any group. I even tried a friend's Pyrodex P powder with the same results. Swabbing between shots or no don't seem to matter as far as accuracy goes. Sights are tight and not moving. I'm almost ready to say this rifle will be a mantle piece and cut my losses. I am not the greatest shot in the world but I can shoot decently. I am getting great accuracy from my TC Hawken 50 caliber, and have no issues with accuracy from my open-sight centerfire rifles.

Any last minute suggestions?

In my experience small calibers are more affected by lube choice than larger calibers. My 30, 32 and 36 all TOW's mink tallow. If we're talking the same stuff that you're using, clearly your rifle doesn't like it.

Next time you're at the range you might keep your tight combo, but dink around with other lubes. For simplicity I'd probably start with plain old spit patch. Then maybe one of the "dry" Ballistol scenarios. My rifles didn't likem, but that has nothing to do with yours.

Don't know why lube would be such a factor, but it's an easy one to test in any case.

You didn't say what the distance was you were shooting at.
If it was 50 yards with a 30 grain powder load and there was any breeze at all, that breeze could move the ball over 2 1/2". That's with a 5 mile an hour crosswind. A 5 mph wind is barely noticeable.

A gust of 10 miles an hour when you fired would move the ball 5 inches at 50 yards. :shocked2:

The same 10 mph crosswind would move a .490 caliber ball about 3.3 inches at 50 yards showing the smaller .315 is affected by the wind a lot more than the bigger calibers.

Seek out you fired patches. They should be about 10-15 feet from where you shoot and almost look good enough to use again. Fine would shoot a couple shots and if I didn't swab accuracy would go down hill quick. Try some other lubes and stick to one thing for awhile before changing, and change one thing at a time. What exactly are you considering expectable accuracy?

how was the accuracy when it was "going down the barrel too easily"?

shouldn't have to force a PRB down the bore.......

Keep at it. I got a .36 that WILL NOT shoot. It's getting bored our to .38 or .40 real soon.

If you do give up send it to Bobby Hoyt and have it bored out to a new .36 that will shoot!

Check the bedding at the tang. I've had rifles that were dogs until rebedded.

You need to get with Dutch and his accuracy system. In muzzle loading rifles, the smaller the bore, the more sensitive the gun is to every variable. .32s are the worst of the bunch. My .32 Cherokee will only shoot accurately with EXACTLY a .315 pure lead round ball, .016 Pillow ticking patches with Dutch's "dry-lube" and 25 grains of Goex FFFg black powder, ANYTHING else is FUBAR.

Mooman76 said:

Seek out you fired patches. They should be about 10-15 feet from where you shoot and almost look good enough to use again. Fine would shoot a couple shots and if I didn't swab accuracy would go down hill quick. Try some other lubes and stick to one thing for awhile before changing, and change one thing at a time. What exactly are you considering expectable accuracy?

Click to expand...

Patches actually look good.

Accuracy, at least holes touching or ever so close to it. At 25 yards I'd expect that off a bench rest. At times I'm getting 2-3 shots about that close and the next one goes off 5-7 inches either way. Routinely also, not just one every now and then. No rhyme nor pattern for it.

Redstick Lee said:

how was the accuracy when it was "going down the barrel too easily"?

shouldn't have to force a PRB down the bore.......

Click to expand...

Not that good. At 25 yards, a couple shots would be acceptable and then next few 5-7 inches off either way. The .315 and .018 ticking patch goes down the bore a little tighter but still not forcing. About right I'd say. But no accuracy improvement.

Try some .319 or .320 RBs.

I have the same rifle only and older one that I bought used. It seems to like 12-15 grains of 3f with a pillow ticking patch and spit lube at 25 yards. With mine, if there is an accuracy problem, it is usually me. I use .311 cast round balls with it.

Not going to try to steal the mans post here, but wanted to throw in what I observed. I'm the one he was shooting with today and unfortunately, I've not nothing far as advice on this. I simply lack the experience with blackpowder.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but here is what I recall of the day with his accuracy woes.

distance-25 yards
Bench with good rest, not a vice so allowed natural recoil
cloudy with intermittent wind. I'm going to say wind is not that much a factor here. Wasnt with my gun.

He can shoot... was nailing good with my .32

While I was there, he tried .310 rb I cast, .315 swaged rbs, blackpowder, pyrodex, and had tried different sized patches. mink oil lube.

Would do well for 3-4 shots then either the 4th or 5th would go a little wild.. then subsequent shots were literally all over.

Would move to my gun and then back to his after a bit and same thing. I called it a 'Union gun' Needed a 15 min break ever so often.

I dont know if he'd tried different lubes earlier, but that was the only constant in today's shooting I saw so maybe that's something to give a go with.

We checked sites, all tight... checked bedding.. all tight.

Regardless of who was shooting, same effect. 3 or so acceptable and the rest not so much.

To put it into perspective, a typical group would have 3 near touching. 4th slightly off and then after that, who knows.

We saw our best group out of it using pyrodex with the .315 balls and his mink oil patching. I know he cringed using it, but first couple shots looked really good and then same as before.

Despite the frustration, was a great day of shooting and I really enjoyed yakking with a like minded person.

With my .32's, ( I have 4 of them) I have to swab the barrel after my third shot or my groups open up like yours. Are you swabbing between shots, or only after 5 or six shots? Try swabbing at least every third or other shot using denatured alcohol. Every gun is a law unto itself. One of my .32 likes a .311 ball with .015 mink oil patch with 22 grn.s of 3f, another likes the same ball, patch and lube but only 15 grns of 3f, one gun likes 25 grains of 3f with a .320 ball and a .010 mink oil patch, and the last likes 30 grains of 3f with a .315 ball and .015 mink oil patch. With these load in these guns I get less than 1/2 inch groups at 25 yards from the bench and about 1.5" at 50 yards, which is as far as I would attempt to shoot a squirrel or rabbit with my eyes.

I can't argue with much of the above thoughts on the smaller calibers being pickier than the heavier or larger calibers.. I think the problem might be related to the smaller calibers loving tendency to retain as much black Powder residue as possible.. The between shot wipe is probably more important .

There are a lot of squirrel rifle marksmen on the Forum and a discussion of their practices and habits would be interesting.
One advantage that they do have is that the ball that fits their rifle is also a common shot size as outlined in the book.


Dutch

Yes, he was swabbing after each shot... as was I when I shot it.

I have experienced the same thing with a traditions but in 50 caliber. Somebody a lot more experience than I said the trouble was the very shallow rifling. I got the same results three shots together and the next one somewhere else. It got to where if I did a complete and thorough barrel cleaning I could keep the three shots touching. However with swabbing between shots two or three is all it would hold before stringing out. The only thing that solved this problem was to shoot conical bullets. As much as I wanted it to be a round ball gun it just isn’t. If you swab between shots you can shoot conical’s into the same hole all day long. If that is your case you just have to decide whether to take it or leave it. Good luck!

Interesting that you mentioned that. I was wondering the same last night while I was up and couldnt sleep.

Cant speak for the fellow, but would assume he'd rather shoot round balls in it.

Still, I found some rather small, 76gr bullets in .313 that I ordered last night for him to try out of it. Hope they'll get here before we meet up to shoot again. Maybe will be the ticket. Price is more than the lead balls of course, but if they work... well.

Have you been able to look at the bore? You might have an issue with the rifling.

From what I hear, Mr. Hoyt might be able to take that barrel and deepen the grooves, making the shallow rifling issue go away. I have a 50 that I plan on sending to him for that same reason.
Griz