The fur trade

A short film of the Hudson Bay Company from the Native perspective.

http://www.nfb.ca/film/other_side_of_the_ledger/

40 views and no comments...it was a bit depressing towards the end, but I enjoyed the art in the beginning...

Yeah.....depressing. Problem is, they're right about HBC and the arc of history over the last 348 years.

Well I had to watch it before I could comment on it, and it was not a short vid.
I found it post modren revisionist history. The Indians drove the trade as much as the Europeans. There was much competition to deliver a product the Indians wanted to buy, for the cheapest price. Americans had to imitate a lot of what HBC sold, just to make the sale. All of a sudden around 1840 seed beads became popular in the west, and traders were left with barrels of unsold pony beads. Colors could be all the rage one year and avoided like the plague the next. HBC was in business to make a profit, and did a good job of providing what the customer wanted... on each side of the transaction.
The history of the fur trade is littered with owners going broke.

Yeah, big money to be made also means big money to be lost, as well as many lives in the process. Trying to say one side terribly mistreated or took advantage of another is an exercise in futility. The Europeans had every advantage, though, and there wasn't much that could have changed what happened. As much as it sometimes seems terribly unfair.

It seems unfair to us today. I don’t try to judge people by standards they didn’t have.
I look at Nazis in Germany and the Japanese empire. By German standards they acted evil, and many tried to run and hide after the war. By Japanese standards they acted normally and morally, they did not try to hide and were surprised when brought to trial.
I try to understand Japan while judging nazi Germany harshly.
I don’t think we can judge European fur companies or southren slave owners or New England whalers or witch hunters ect by standards they didn’t know.

People thought it was unfair back then too...Make no mistake about that.

Colorado Clyde said:

People thought it was unfair back then too...Make no mistake about that.

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Do you have period quotes to back that up? Multiple quotes required, since you used the plural people.
:grin:

Some did, but it was an out of the norm. When Quakers started opposing slavery they were just ”˜whakos’. As were the first people to form SPCA.
One of my favorite stories is Ivanho by Scott. Through it he condemns antisemitism only to make antisemitic statements through the story.
Good Queen Bess wanted to move to a freedom of religion, she would not ”˜make windows in to men’s hearts’. She didn’t care what one believes as long as you went to church and recited from the book of common prayer.
The idea of one man one vote, equal justice before the law, rule of law over rule of man, were slow ideas to develop. We still wrestle with how to obtain the ideal, but just five centuries ago few people in the world even thought that was a thing.

When I reflect on the history of the Americas, I often consider what might have happened if Gengis Kahn had ended up here first? Or if the Mayan empire had expanded north?

The first people of Europe were replaced by Neanderthal. Who got replaced by the first modren humans. Finns Lapps and Basque are the only remnants of these people left, although we know a bit about the Iberians and the Etruscan. The first second and third Europeans got replaced and absorbed by invaders. The story not just European. We know the Persian Afghan and India stories real well. Less talked about is the semetic invasion of the near east and North Africa or the Japanese invasion of Japan.
The idea of giving a reservation to a invaded people is a new one. We don’t yet know how it is going to work out, but in Australia Canada and the USA results have been less then promising so far.

tenngun said:

The first people of Europe were replaced by Neanderthal.

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Who would these "first people of Europe" have been?

Spence

Ummmmmm.

I've seen topics that got sidetracked but I have to ask, what do the last 7 posts have to do with the fur trade? That was a rhetorical question that doesn't need an answer.

Can we please get back to the Hudson's Bay Company and its relationship with the North American Indians?

Heidenburg man was an example. And some pre Neanderthal finds in Spain. Most likely Homo erectus who had emigrated acros the land bridge between Africa and Europe. First called early homo sapians but info is scarce. Populations were small. They may have been related to the Siberian finds who’s name escapes me at this time.

Denisovans.

Spence

That’s the ones, had not yet the time to look it up.

Not so rhetorical. In determining the fairness of the situation one should look at possible alternatives. Fur trade with Europe and the resulting colonization allowed many tribes to hold onto much of their culture. Colonization by other cultures could have been much worse. Also, Native Americans seem to focus on the best of what their cultures had to offer and gloss over the negative aspects.

Zonie said:

Ummmmmm.

I've seen topics that got sidetracked but I have to ask, what do the last 7 posts have to do with the fur trade? That was a rhetorical question that doesn't need an answer.

Can we please get back to the Hudson's Bay Company and its relationship with the North American Indians?

Click to expand...

When the poster, without warrant, questions the integrity of a responder it generates a supporting discussion. Human nature.

I am more interested in the fur trade as well.