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Interesting...
https://youtu.be/a5qMBW3nIak
https://youtu.be/a5qMBW3nIak
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The Afghan Long Rifle
- Thread starter coloradoclyde
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Cool, Would have been neat to shoot it.
Clyde and Moose,
I've been interested in these archaic arms for a good long time, and a while ago I got a couple of Indian taradors shooting.
Not too accurately yet, but a lot of fun!
Seems the original cow dung wadding, (dry, not fresh!) really works well for some reason, LOL!
Plan on hunting with mine when I get the load sorted out. They have a large capacity anti-chamber that wants to hold more then 200 grains of powder (.54 cal) so have to devise a way to somehow part fill this chamber with wadding, and as the neck into the chamber is smaller than the bore, a ball cannot be seated on a lesser charge unless wadding fills part of the space. That's where the dry crumbly cow sh.. er, cow dung comes in...
What got me interested in these , is that we hear first hand accounts of how they outranged the British muskets of the time, with far more accuracy to boot. So, I Had to try one!
They originally must have filled the anti-chamber with powder, and that would cause these long barrels to shoot a very heavy charge.
All the best,
Richard.
I've been interested in these archaic arms for a good long time, and a while ago I got a couple of Indian taradors shooting.
Not too accurately yet, but a lot of fun!
Seems the original cow dung wadding, (dry, not fresh!) really works well for some reason, LOL!
Plan on hunting with mine when I get the load sorted out. They have a large capacity anti-chamber that wants to hold more then 200 grains of powder (.54 cal) so have to devise a way to somehow part fill this chamber with wadding, and as the neck into the chamber is smaller than the bore, a ball cannot be seated on a lesser charge unless wadding fills part of the space. That's where the dry crumbly cow sh.. er, cow dung comes in...
What got me interested in these , is that we hear first hand accounts of how they outranged the British muskets of the time, with far more accuracy to boot. So, I Had to try one!
They originally must have filled the anti-chamber with powder, and that would cause these long barrels to shoot a very heavy charge.
All the best,
Richard.
Clyde,
A wee clip of the torador firing;
Matchlock though...
https://youtu.be/PPkZvZiIl4Y
A wee clip of the torador firing;
Matchlock though...
https://youtu.be/PPkZvZiIl4Y
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Very cool.....Thanks for posting that, Somehow I got unsubscribed to that channel...I love his videos.
Stubshaft,
It was only 75 grs. 2F.
I loaded filler into the anti-chamber, but the cow dung works better. (Didn't know about that when Rob took this!)
It doesn't kick, as the barrel is 46" and Heavy, as in about twice the weight of a normal rifle barrel, but this one as most toradors, is smooth.
Clyde,
You can see the rest of our annual shoot on Robs channel if you want.
Look up "Alberta shoot". We hold it each June.
Best,
Richard.
It was only 75 grs. 2F.
I loaded filler into the anti-chamber, but the cow dung works better. (Didn't know about that when Rob took this!)
It doesn't kick, as the barrel is 46" and Heavy, as in about twice the weight of a normal rifle barrel, but this one as most toradors, is smooth.
Clyde,
You can see the rest of our annual shoot on Robs channel if you want.
Look up "Alberta shoot". We hold it each June.
Best,
Richard.
Pukka (Rich):RJDH said:
I've been reading up on matchlocks, given my early Tannenberg hand gonne purchase. The book talks about "mealed" black powdah and how it was very, very coarse and needed 'compression' to aid in the combustion process.
It is not possible these Toradars and Jezails were shot with mealed powdah and that special anti-chamber (ingenious really ...) was specificlly designed to get as much 'ooommpphhhh' out of that early BP as possible?
Oh, I have a wonderful Jezail pickup I have yet to show you, about 95% adorned with Mother of Pearl ornamentation and a muzzle like your recent Winter matchlock build.
Cheers!
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RJDH said:
Thanks, I saw, looks like you guys know how to have fun... :thumbsup: :hatsoff: Very inspirational.
Look forward to seeing your new prize, F-Smoothie!! Sounds a nice one!
Mealed powder;
Actually mealed powder was very fine, just like meal. I thought about this for the Toradors, and it Does make sense.
Mealed powder had a tendency to settle out into its various properties, so had to be stirred after transport.
The mealed didn't like to be compressed at all really, so the chamber to prevent crushing makes perfect sense. It may be that Early toradors were made with this in mind, and Later ones..".because this is always been the way we've made them!".
I don't know, but early hand-gonnes had a chamber of sorts to prevent crushing the powder, and these larger chambers with a narrow neck to prevent a ball going too far to the breech is the same principle.
Seeing as earlier toradors were being made in the 1500's if not before, it is not a surprise that the breeches had the same function. But Is a surprise that many Made in the 18th & 19th C had the very same breech set-up, when we know they were producuing V good quality corned powder.
Clyde,
I'll see if I can find you a link to the 2015 shoot, when we had time to shoot to about 700 yards.
Best,
Richard.
Mealed powder;
Actually mealed powder was very fine, just like meal. I thought about this for the Toradors, and it Does make sense.
Mealed powder had a tendency to settle out into its various properties, so had to be stirred after transport.
The mealed didn't like to be compressed at all really, so the chamber to prevent crushing makes perfect sense. It may be that Early toradors were made with this in mind, and Later ones..".because this is always been the way we've made them!".
I don't know, but early hand-gonnes had a chamber of sorts to prevent crushing the powder, and these larger chambers with a narrow neck to prevent a ball going too far to the breech is the same principle.
Seeing as earlier toradors were being made in the 1500's if not before, it is not a surprise that the breeches had the same function. But Is a surprise that many Made in the 18th & 19th C had the very same breech set-up, when we know they were producuing V good quality corned powder.
Clyde,
I'll see if I can find you a link to the 2015 shoot, when we had time to shoot to about 700 yards.
Best,
Richard.
RAEDWALD
40 Cal.
It has been plausibly suggested that mealed powder in such an antechamber works differently to corned powder.
The flame front progresses much more slowly through the dense fine meal so one might imagine that it burns more slowly and this is the origin of the idea that they wanted long barrels to allow the slow burning powder to burn out in the barrel.
The current hypothesis is that the heat from the initial burning of the rear of the charge produces heat and pressure. Like a diesel engine this then ignites the rest of the charge by adiabatic heating and it all goes off together. This concept explains the antechamber as it is narrower than the bore so thus has more metal surrounding it when it all goes off at once.
For another reason for the longer barrel there are many candidates from long sight radius for the extra range to the extremely heated charge still expanding from the heat acting on the released gas from ignition via vanity and intimidation to mention just a few. But it is observable that long barrels have been associated with mealed powder.
Afghan gunpowder has been made for centuries and it is difficult to imagine that corning was not an option not introduced to the makers. However, unless also pressed before being broken into cakes, it will be friable. The end result, when the user comes to make use of it, after hundreds of miles on animal pack and then carried in a powder flask for months may well be mealed powder again.
The flame front progresses much more slowly through the dense fine meal so one might imagine that it burns more slowly and this is the origin of the idea that they wanted long barrels to allow the slow burning powder to burn out in the barrel.
The current hypothesis is that the heat from the initial burning of the rear of the charge produces heat and pressure. Like a diesel engine this then ignites the rest of the charge by adiabatic heating and it all goes off together. This concept explains the antechamber as it is narrower than the bore so thus has more metal surrounding it when it all goes off at once.
For another reason for the longer barrel there are many candidates from long sight radius for the extra range to the extremely heated charge still expanding from the heat acting on the released gas from ignition via vanity and intimidation to mention just a few. But it is observable that long barrels have been associated with mealed powder.
Afghan gunpowder has been made for centuries and it is difficult to imagine that corning was not an option not introduced to the makers. However, unless also pressed before being broken into cakes, it will be friable. The end result, when the user comes to make use of it, after hundreds of miles on animal pack and then carried in a powder flask for months may well be mealed powder again.
RAEDWALD
40 Cal.
BTW. Baden Henry Powell in his 1872 Volume 2 of the 'Handbook of the Economic Products of the Punjab' (https://archive.org/details/handbookeconomi00powgoog) pp 285-9 details and illustrates how such rifles were made in the Punjab of the 1860's and would be quite familiar to any American artisan gunmaker of long rifles.
Ahhhh, so I was on to it, just had it backwards, haha. But I was surmising that the specially shaped anti-chamber was due to the powder of the day/period. So I got that part right :wink: .RJDH said:
It is also possible there were huge stores of the prepared components for mealed powder still around? The book on the earliest hand gonnes mentions that mealed powder was often shipped to the battlefield in its 3 component form and mixed right there at the battle site or more probably, during a siege.
It also stated that it was more stable, therefore much easier and safer to handle, store, and transport ... when not mixed into the explosive form.
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