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Login Name Post: Indian made bess        (Topic#307151)
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6853
Loyalist Dave
04-20-18 06:39 AM - Post#1680662    

    In response to nhmoose

In fact I have a very early edition of that novel.

I liked it not only for the story, BUT also the fact that the author, who also wrote Northwest Passage, Rabble in Arms, and Arundel, was able to write a story in 1940 as the world was approaching WWII, that had American audiences rooting FOR the Brits and the Loyalists.

In fact I use it as the basis for my person when speaking to tourist in First Person at events. While I am a "Serjeant", prior to the outbreak of the AWI I was a tavern keeper (I can discuss brewing with people too if they wish) and I agreed with my neighbors that we as Americans had grievances with Parliament, but when they wanted to arm themselves and fight fellow British subjects, I refused to participate in that with them....so they branded me a traitor, seized my inn, and tossed me and the family out. So much for the "rights of every man", and from my perspective, they are the problem, not a Parliament 3000 miles away which passes laws, which we ignore....

LD

 
Smokey Plainsman 
45 Cal.
Posts: 983
Smokey Plainsman
04-20-18 09:02 AM - Post#1680677    

    In response to Loyalist Dave

Aren't the bbls a form of pipe? And unproved?

The safety seems dubious at best. We're talking about containing an explosion that is right next to your sensory and cognition center, not a super soaker.

The lack of transparency from these makers gives me 0 confidence. Maybe if they'd have some material on their sites showing what these guns were actually made of and how and show some testing for safety, I'd consider one.

Until then, I'd buy a modern European musket made of proper gun steels with well designed breeches made by trusted companies like Pedersoli that by law are ALL proved in a national proof house that uses state of the art equipmenent. When it comes to safety, the Europeans do not skimp.

What do the Indians in their little blacksmith shops do?



 
azmntman 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5700
azmntman
04-20-18 09:52 AM - Post#1680683    

    In response to Smokey Plainsman

Answer AT&T tech support calls on the side?

 
hawkeye2 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2372
hawkeye2
04-20-18 02:16 PM - Post#1680727    

    In response to azmntman



 
Curlyhair 
32 Cal.
Posts: 29
04-20-18 06:17 PM - Post#1680746    

    In response to azmntman

  • azmntman Said:
Answer AT&T tech support calls on the side?



Ain't that the truth.


 
Georgia flint 
32 Cal.
Posts: 25
04-20-18 06:51 PM - Post#1680749    

    In response to Smokey Plainsman

There are NO European proof houses for black powder guns. I'm not hating on Pedersoli, I have 7 of their guns and love them. They do not proof every barrel. The 8 to 10% of barrel's tested are recycled and reformed.

 
rj morrison 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1477
rj  morrison
04-21-18 10:27 AM - Post#1680828    

    In response to Georgia flint

all foreign made muzzleloaders that are meant to be fired are proofed. indian made one are not. they are meant to be wall hangers.

 
Curlyhair 
32 Cal.
Posts: 29
04-21-18 04:09 PM - Post#1680881    

    In response to rj morrison

  • rj morrison Said:
all foreign made muzzleloaders that are meant to be fired are proofed. indian made one are not. they are meant to be wall hangers.


OK, lots of bbls for all types of guns made right here in the USA. Where's our proof house?

 
nhmoose 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2209
nhmoose
04-21-18 04:11 PM - Post#1680882    

    In response to rj morrison

By that line of thinking no USA made guns are not meant to be shot and are wall hangers because they are not proofed.

Just another India made slam post

 
Raedwald 
40 Cal.
Posts: 250
Raedwald
04-21-18 05:05 PM - Post#1680897    

    In response to Smokey Plainsman

For the umpteenth time.

The barrels are made from hydraulic pipe yes. These are modern steel of more than enough quality to do the job and far better than ever left the best barrel makers of the flintlock period. Industrial high pressure large volume hydraulic piping is not made like your water pipes but close to aerospace standards. Sellers quote the type of steel if you want to look up the qualities of that international standard.

They are not made as wall hangers. They are made to be fired. However, in India they cannot be exported with drilled touch holes because they become firearms under Indian law and subject to export restrictions. Exporting them undrilled allows them to be exported.

They are sold across Europe and all have to be proofed before being sold. They routinely pass UK, German, French, Italian and Spanish proofs.

They are less well finished and with less well made locks than Pedersoli for example. What would one expect when they are half the price? You get what you pay for and that is fine if they are safely made, which they are.



 
Georgia flint 
32 Cal.
Posts: 25
04-21-18 07:17 PM - Post#1680930    

    In response to Raedwald

Thanks for the responses.

 
rj morrison 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1477
rj  morrison
04-21-18 07:59 PM - Post#1680933    

    In response to Curlyhair

we don't proof them , forgien made do I have 3 all are proofed.

 
BillinOregon 
Cannon
Posts: 6513
04-22-18 08:01 AM - Post#1680990    

    In response to rj morrison

Raedwald, thank you for your very informed post.

 
Curlyhair 
32 Cal.
Posts: 29
04-22-18 05:27 PM - Post#1681038    

    In response to rj morrison

  • rj morrison Said:
we don't proof them , forgien made do I have 3 all are proofed.



Therefore all U.S. made guns are wall hangers?


 
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6853
Loyalist Dave
04-23-18 08:33 AM - Post#1681108    

    In response to Georgia flint

  • Quote:
There are NO European proof houses for black powder guns.



No, that isn't true.

There are no standards for any of the International Proof houses when it comes to black powder. There are agreed upon pressures and tests for smokeless cartridges.

The proof houses that are members of the CIP place thier black powder proof mark upon those barrels that pass the individual proof house tests. The German and English proof houses give a test that is almost 2X the pressure of the Italian house. The Spanish proof house "batch tests" barrels, so they don't necessarily proof every individual barrel.

  • Quote:
RJ Morrison wrote:
all foreign made muzzleloaders that are meant to be fired are proofed. indian made one are not.


All European made barrels that are meant to be fired are proofed in countries requiring proofed barrels, but you may find countries in Eastern Europe have proof houses that don't belong to the CIP, yet since the black powder proof tests are arbitrary for each proof house, it matters not.

Further Japanese barrels and American barrels are not proofed, since America has no CIP proof-house, and neither does Japan.

So far the Indian barrels sent to European proof houses by members of this forum have all passed. An American made barrel did not.

LD

 
Capt. Jas. 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2377
04-23-18 09:18 AM - Post#1681120    

    In response to Loyalist Dave

  • Loyalist Dave Said:


So far the Indian barrels sent to European proof houses by members of this forum have all passed. An American made barrel did not.

LD




What was that American made of?

 
Raedwald 
40 Cal.
Posts: 250
Raedwald
04-23-18 11:05 AM - Post#1681133    

    In response to Loyalist Dave

Just to mention that the Polish dealer I am aware of has his successfully proofed in Germany. BTW the German proof requires the proof firing to be repeated 5 times.

The Spanish batch test is for production guns made in Spain and thy require that all the barrels in a batch are demonstrably made from the same batch of steel and machined on the same machinery i.e. identical in material and form.

Whilst I think of it. India has a government proof house too which is founded upon British practice. Once the gun is proofed it legally becomes a firearm subject to assorted laws and export restrictions.


 
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6853
Loyalist Dave
04-23-18 01:34 PM - Post#1681147    

    In response to Capt. Jas.

The forum member didn't say. He merely said he'd bought a rifle from an American builder, a semi-custom builder using a name brand barrel, and sent it to his local proofing house where it failed. I suspect it was improperly breeched, not an actual "barrel failure", and my reason to suspect this is I've bought a barrel in the past offered to be delivered with the breech plug in place, and I found it was short of being flush with the rifling, but that's conjecture on my part as it applies to the European failure.

On the other hand the German house is very very precise in their pre-inspection, and if your touch hole is too large, you fail before any further tests are attempted. Could've been as simple as that.

A barrel "failure" is not limited to it bursting.

LD

 
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