Patched round balls or conicals for big game?

Another question(s) just for my curiosity. First, are lead conicals considered "traditional?" When did they come onto the scene? In any event, curious to hear what folks on here blow out the end of their muzzle when hunting big game.

I hunt with a 54cal rifle with a 1:48 twist and primarily hunt deer with a 535 PRB. I've also harvested deer with T/C Maxi Balls and Hornady GPs and just started casting 380gr Lee REALs. I haven't had a chance at an elk yet, but was advised by a number of people that I should use a heavy lead conical instead of a PRB for greater penetration. I suspect many on here use PRBs without issue...

So, what say you? Conical or round balls? Let's assume that shots are within 100-125 yards.

Never hunted or killed an elk but have taken lots and lots of deer. I've used a .45 with prb for most of the deer I've killed; but also the .50, .54 and .62. I like prb in muzzleloaders and they are sure and quick "droppers". While I'd not hesitate to shoot elk with a .50 prb, I'd much prefer a .54 or even the .62. But patched round ball would be the only projectile I would, and have always, use.

Unless you hit the front shoulder pretty square a PRB has all the penetration you'll ever need for elk. I wait for a broadside lung shot and have not ever recovered a bullet or lost an elk. I use 80 3f and .530. Same charge and .570 for my big bore.

I bet a PRB would blow through at east one shoulder with my charge and real sure it would for the guys that like 100gr + charges.

I suspect many on here use PRBs without issue...

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I'm sure that is true even though I haven't personally killed anything larger than a deer. The key is placement.
Again, personally, I would limit that range to 100 yards.

Rifleman1776 said:

I suspect many on here use PRBs without issue...

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I'm sure that is true even though I haven't personally killed anything larger than a deer. The key is placement.
Again, personally, I would limit that range to 100 yards.

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I've rarely found a need to shoot beyond 100 yards anyway. That's why I sold my last remaining centerfire rifle about 8 years ago. I haven't left a deer tag unfilled in over a decade using my muzzleloader. Now elk on the other hand, I'm 0 for 2 so far. But we were in the right spot last year.

azmntman said:

Unless you hit the front shoulder pretty square a PRB has all the penetration you'll ever need for elk. I wait for a broadside lung shot and have not ever recovered a bullet or lost an elk. I use 80 3f and .530. Same charge and .570 for my big bore.

I bet a PRB would blow through at east one shoulder with my charge and real sure it would for the guys that like 100gr + charges.

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This was always my intuition as well. Then I talked a guy at Colorado Parks and Wildlife and he told me it'd be "unethical" to hunt at elk with such a low quality projectile as a PRB.

Whether or not it's needed, you can certainly increase the penetration of a particular diameter bore by going to heavier and heavier conicals. You don't get that much of an improvement in round ball penetration by running up the powder scale, and in fact you're likely to get less if the ball flattens. If you want more "power" with round balls, the better answer is to increase bore diameter and gain projectile weight.

Dunno many guys shooting moose with 50 cal round balls, but the number goes up when you move up to 54 cal. And the results of guys shooting 58 and 62 calibers has even the 54 caliber guys thinking about bigger bores. Meanwhile the 50 caliber guy just reaches for a heavier conical. And yeah, conicals have been around lots longer than most guys want to admit. When you read Taos Trappers there is a reference in there to a guy using a conical from his Hawken in 1832 as I recall.

Few of the earliest American rifles were over .54. They used them well all over the east, killing deer, moose ,buffalo,and black bear. Elk,and eastren buffalo were about wiped out by round ball.Most of the early plains guns were around .50. Later .54 came to be about avarage.
Conicals are better in every way save cost of the lead per shot. You have to use a ball properly and a conical may be a little more forgiving. All and all both are low velocity low power arms. So both have to be treated carefully as a hunting arm.
An interesting note is comparing .50 to .54. Often the .50 with a ball can give more energy then a .54, but testimony from hunters demonstrates that a.54 is a better killer then a .50.
By 1850 conicals were common, and many rifles were made for them. One of our first ”˜modren’ ml books was the Ned Roberts books, and he grew up hunting with conicals in his ml.
I would say judge it by the type of gun you have. A late plains rifle or similar use the conical if you want. A eastren style early rifle grab a ball. Both will serve.

Appreciate the info on the origins of conicals. If I ever decide to jump in with both feet and create a persona and such I'll make sure it's at least from the mid-1800s. :hatsoff:

Good info as well. Thanks!

Mine is a 54cal Cabela's/Investarms percussion gun with a 1:48 twist. Best groups I've ever had have all come from PRBs but it does pretty well with Maxi Balls and Hornady GPs. Still working on finding a reasonable combo for the REALs.

Considering how well it handles PRBs, I've thought the better accuracy vs. conicals might outweigh any energy advantage with the heavy conicals.

This was always my intuition as well. Then I talked a guy at Colorado Parks and Wildlife and he told me it'd be "unethical" to hunt at elk with such a low quality projectile as a PRB.

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This person obviously has no experience and no understanding of the ability of a round ball on elk. I'm sure thousands have been killed with a PRB and if any were wounded it was because of poor shot placement as with any other lead bullet.

I've taken Deer, Moose and Bison all with a PRB and would never use anything else in my flintlocks.

Thanks Longhunter!
I'm going to give the REALs a few more range trips to see if the group come together. If not though, I'm feeling much more confident about using my PRBs on elk this September.

A round ball will do the job IF you do your job...

Black Hand said:

A round ball will do the job IF you do your job...

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:hatsoff:

dsayer said:

Good info as well. Thanks!

Mine is a 54cal Cabela's/Investarms percussion gun with a 1:48 twist. Best groups I've ever had have all come from PRBs but it does pretty well with Maxi Balls and Hornady GPs. Still working on finding a reasonable combo for the REALs.

Considering how well it handles PRBs, I've thought the better accuracy vs. conicals might outweigh any energy advantage with the heavy conicals.

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If your Cabela's Hawken shoots PRB's accurately then you are one of the lucky ones because with the Cabela's brand it seems it is usually the other way around.
Mine was always very accurate with conicals and was terrible with a PRB.
I've just recently fixed that problem smoothing the bore with JB paste.
The quality control wasn't evident, and may have been spotty looking at the bore in my rifle.
Conicals are fine for hunting and what I used for years with success, but the PBR is more economical and should do well whatever you intend to hunt.

Jimbo47 said:

dsayer said:

Good info as well. Thanks!

Mine is a 54cal Cabela's/Investarms percussion gun with a 1:48 twist. Best groups I've ever had have all come from PRBs but it does pretty well with Maxi Balls and Hornady GPs. Still working on finding a reasonable combo for the REALs.

Considering how well it handles PRBs, I've thought the better accuracy vs. conicals might outweigh any energy advantage with the heavy conicals.

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If your Cabela's Hawken shoots PRB's accurately then you are one of the lucky ones because with the Cabela's brand it seems it is usually the other way around.
Mine was always very accurate with conicals and was terrible with a PRB.
I've just recently fixed that problem smoothing the bore with JB paste.
The quality control wasn't evident, and may have been spotty looking at the bore in my rifle.
Conicals are fine for hunting and what I used for years with success, but the PBR is more economical and should do well whatever you intend to hunt.

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Interesting. I've never known this to be a problem with Cabela's rifles. My father has been shooting the same rifle as me for 25+ years, his buddy at least that long, and his son (my best friend) also has one. All shoot PRBs without issue. The lone exception is the Sporterized Hawken I got when I was 12. It's always needed conicals...

Is this an issue with all Investarms rifles then?

dsayer said:

Good info as well. Thanks!

Mine is a 54cal Cabela's/Investarms percussion gun with a 1:48 twist. Best groups I've ever had have all come from PRBs but it does pretty well with Maxi Balls and Hornady GPs. Still working on finding a reasonable combo for the REALs.

Considering how well it handles PRBs, I've thought the better accuracy vs. conicals might outweigh any energy advantage with the heavy conicals.

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I've got the very same rifle. Got it as "junk" since the wood needed refinishing & there's a huge pit in the bore about 2" down from the muzzle. Nevertheless, accuracy is impressive. New wood finish, new Ampco nipple & it doesn't know it's supposed to be junk. At 50 yards the PRB and a Lee Improved Minie have nearly the same POI, but the Minie drops off rapidly at 100 yards.

Since my other rifles (flint) have pretty much the same Investarms barrel, performance is the same in all. I originally got the Lee Improved Minie for use in a Galagher breechloader, but couldn't put enough powder into the brass 'cartridge' to give it much oomph. 40 years later, I've still got some of the minies cast long ago in a jar & they kick like a mule, but there's no advantage over RB's for performance.

Jimbo47 said:

If your Cabela's Hawken shoots PRB's accurately then you are one of the lucky ones because with the Cabela's brand it seems it is usually the other way around.

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Huh.... Must be the Northern Lights or midnight sun, but all I know in Alaska including my own are exceptionally accurate with PRB.

I thought everybody knew that roundballs are worthless for hunting anything bigger than a gopher.

Poor ballistic coefficients causing rapid deceleration and rainbow trajectories, not to mention, they have no forward nor aft. It's just not right. Unnatural.

Then, there's all that fooling around with patch material and messy lubes. Will the patch hold together? Will the lube freeze to my bore. Really more fuss than a man should have to face.

Penetration? They're know to bounce off ribs at any distance.

Accuracy? We all know they pale In comparison to elongated bullets. If not, they'd be loading them in factory fresh brass loads. Right?

If a guy has only roundballs to hunt with, may as well stay home not chance being caught using them. Worse yet is the near guarantee of a cripple. :nono:

Best regards, Skychief.

PS, all of the above was written tongue in cheek and its the opinion of the author that it's all........... :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:

This was always my intuition as well. Then I talked a guy at Colorado Parks and Wildlife and he told me it'd be "unethical" to hunt at elk with such a low quality projectile as a PRB.

Whats unethical is this gentlemen working n a capacity to give information. He likely has a degree in Jack n the Box and very attractive resume :td:

I have two cabelas investarms .54 myself. Both do very well with PRB. Have never shot a conical out of them, with PRB so accurate I never found the need?

As for killing power. Elk are very tough critters with a very high degree of the will to live. I haeve personally seen a guy hit an elk a bit far back with a .300 mag. "Decent" liver hit. Tracked her 1/4 mile. My oldest's first cow also a liver hit with a .54 PRB. 80 yds.

SHOT PLACEMENT, other factors matter but not much