What is the value of a Cenrennial Army 1860-1960 New Model .44 ?

I bought this gun, used, several years ago. Don't remember what I paid for it. Serial no. 773 is stamped on all the parts including the hammer. Top of barrel is marked "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY". Frame has only serial no. and proof marks. Cylinder is smooth-no roll engraving. I would judge condition as: used-in VG condition. Rifling is really shallow! I shot it a few times when I first got it. Cleaned it and put it up on the shelf until now. Any info would be greatly appreciated!!

Dryball

What you have is a Belgian made Colt. There should be a Centaur on the left side of the frame. The value has been up and down over the last several years. I’ve seen them for as little as $200.00, and as high or higher than $650.00.

There is a website for the Centaur Colts. I don’t remember what it is, but it has lots of information regarding those pieces.

The only markings on the frame are the serial no. and the proof marks. I've read about the Centaur revolvers but this isn't one of them--unfortunately!

Does it have “Belgium” on the bottom of the back strap ? There might be tiny Liege proof marks on the cylinder or barrel. :hmm:

The website DoubleDeuce 1 mentioned above is owned by MLF member Long Johns Wolf and is: http://www.1960nma.org/

There is a very good thread here with the owner of the above website posting:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...post/1062349/hl/belgium/fromsearch/1/#1062349

Also, agree with DoubleDeuce 1 on the value range.

Have had a few of these and IIRC have seen them marked with and without the Centaure on the frame. Again IIRC some were barrel marked " 1860 NEW MODEL ARMY 1960 ".

The OP asks about a Cenrennial with no markings and this somehow turns in to a Centaur limited edition thread?

Geez Necchi, were 5 posts in all ready :rotf:

Yes, the bottom of the backstrap is indeed stamped: "Made in Belgium". Also, I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Centaurs were only distributed in Europe. Maybe this gun is just a Plain-Jane Centennial Arms Cap & Ball revolver. Although it would be interesting to know the year it was made.

There might be information for dates of manufacture on the Centaur site. It breaks down some of the differences found on the various models. Your three digit number might be a very early production piece.

The 1860 Army Centaur I have, has a fluted cylinder. The barrel is marked similar to yours with the date of 1960. There is interesting information about how the Belgian Colt revolvers came into being on that web site.

The box my revolver came in was marked Centennial Arms. The box is long since gone. If I recall, the box was black with gold lettering.

I don’t recall anyone mentioning this revolver being a “limited edition”. To say the least, the owner now has a bit more information regarding his revolver.

# Your Centaure #773 is a Regular New Model Army (RNMA) 1st Variation 1st Sub-Variation. She is from 1960.
The lowest serial number recorded in the Centaure & FROCS data bank of an RNMA with logo is #1153.
These Centaure C&B revolvers were made by Fabriques d'Armes Unies de Liège (FAUL) in Belgium.
Originally, they were made for Centennial Arms Corp. Inc. in Lincolnwood, IL.
First sales to European dealers from ca. 1962.
FAUL produced 5 models: 1st Model RNMA (8" barrel, 3-screw frame, recoil shield with notches), 2nd Model Civilian (8" barrel, no notches in recoil shield, silver plated TG & BS), 3rd Model Cavalry (7,5" & 8" barrel, 4-screw frame, many with shoulder stock), 4th Model Marshal (5,5" barrel, most have fluted cylinder, stainless look). 5th Model Pocket Army (4" barrel, no loading lever).
Over all 5 models some 16,200 specimens only were made between fall of 1959 and early summer of 1973.
Many variants are rare collector pieces.
For details check www.1960nma.org.
Long Johns Wolf

I live in Europe and I've never seen one.

tac

According to our Centaure research program only some 50 specimens were delivered to the UK in the early 1960s and another handful in the early 1970s.
But ca. 8.000 were sold to the continent of Europe, the majority to Germany.
If you happen to be in Germany around July 14/15, 2018 we have our Annual Centaure Meeting, this time in Radebeul, Saxony. At the meeting you have the opportunity to study all major Centaure variations and also conversions.
However, and to bring these numbers into perspective that is nothing compared to the production output of makers like Pietta, Uberti and even the 2nd and 3rd gen Colt C&B revolvers.
Long Johns Wolf

I would think a "1st Variation 1st Sub-Variation" with a serial number of 773 would be quite valuable?

Do you have any idea what the current market value would be?

You refer to my gun as a Centaure even though it is not stamped on the frame with the Centaure symbol/logo. Would it not be more appropriate to describe this gun as Pre-Centaure production,as you say they were originally made for Centennial Arms. Or should all the Belgium made 1960-1860 guns be referred to as Centaurs? Regardless, it is an interesting and thought provoking gun.

Also, I would like to thank all who took the time to post their comments on this subject. It
was most informative!

RE your question on value, Zonie: Don't I wish!

Your Centaure is a regular production revolver, no preproduction or even a prototype.
We could not discover yet why the early ones had no logo, the intermediate ones got the rampant centaur logo and the later ones the walking centaur logo.
Europeans call these 1860 pattern C&B revolvers of FAUL Centaures because of the Centaur logo.
The US-Americans follow suit only slowly after my Texas pard Paden and I kicked-off this research program in 2007, we started the Centaure & FROCS website and posted research data.
But mostly my Centaure friends on the Western side of the big pond call them Centennial Armies.
Why? Because many of the specimens found in the USA have CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK as an element of the top of the barrel marking.
FAUL applied the barrel marking "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" only in the period 1959 to 1962 and again on the last Centaures produced from 1972 to 1973.
Long Johns Wolf

Sometimes we can be stubborn over here! And, yes slow on occasion. I am a very curious person and I ask many questions. The Boss Lady will tell you that sometimes I drive her crazy with questions.

I have an original 1860 Colt Army and yesterday I decided to see if the barrel would fit on the Centaur/Centennial gun. It fit perfectly! Everything lined up just fine. A tribute to those Belgian gun makers!!

Dryball

I acquired what I believe to be a 3rd Model Cavalry (in Canada) as a project gun. Base pin had been ruined. Had to make a replacement. For stock used a die maker's bolt. I was amazed to find that the threads were Imperial. The revolver shoots very well.

In Germany is also a booklet with description off all
normal Centaure/ Centennial Revolver. Only for collectors.


Gloyer

I may have a Centaure 1860. I bought it used several years ago and it is marked New Model Army on top of the barrel. It has been de farbed of other markings on the action but has the scroll engraving on the cylinder. I need to pull it out and look at it more carefully and try to post some pictures.