Investarms Hawken in 58 caliber

Ran across one that was priced a bit high, but is absolutely pristine. Shiny brass and very well cared for. It's on the way, should be here by the end of the week. So the big question is, anyone have one in a 58 and what combo of ball size and patch thickness have you had good results with? I need to order supplies because this will be a new caliber for me.

I use a .575 RB with a .012 patch with good results. Mine is an older one(about 30 years old) that also has a .50 barrel with it. Brownbear I believe has one also.

There are a fair number of owners here on the site now. And far as I know, all of us love em. The most notable feature is their 15/16" barrel, which is smaller than the 1" minimum in production today. That makes them lots lighter and handier.

But it comes at a cost. By the time you cut some dovetails in the barrel, the metal is getting pretty thin. Most if not all of us keep our loads down a bit. My self-assigned max is 100 grains of 2f, though I've settled on 80 grains for a hunting load. In my direct experience that's enough geewhiz to completely ventilate a broadside deer at 75 yards, far I've tried it.

Sighted in at 75 yards with that light of a charge, a .570 ball and ticking lubed with TOW's mink tallow, it's almost 2" high at 50 yards, right on at 75 and around 8" low at 100. Pretty loopy, but it sure gets the job done. Meanwhile it's a treat to pack in the hills because it's so light.

BrownBear said:

Sighted in at 75 yards with that light of a charge, a .570 ball and ticking lubed with TOW's mink tallow, it's almost 2" high at 50 yards, right on at 75 and around 8" low at 100. Pretty loopy, but it sure gets the job done. Meanwhile it's a treat to pack in the hills because it's so light.

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Perfect. That is the primary reason I was looking for one in 58. I have the 50 (TC) but wanted something with a bit more punch. Where my primary hunting is, 75 yards is about max you can get amoung the cedar and mesquite brush. In the few open spots in the creek bottoms maybe a 75 yard shot, but usually less. I'm off to ordering some supplies, so I will get a box of each and work up a load. As always, I appreciate the wisdom found here. Sure has cured a lot of headaches for me and prevented future ones.

My percussion's both like .570 and thicker patch. Also shoot Hornady great plains bullets real well but then loopy trajectory is an understatement. Pop hit his buffalo at about 40 yds trotting and it "trotted" three more leaps and was done.

My 58 likes a Lee copy or original minie as well. It is a little over 500gr. It doesn't shoot target accuracy but is certainly good enough for minute of deer out to 100y. I figured if I ever went moose or elk hunting again, I'd use it maybe.

azmntman said:

My percussion's both like .570 and thicker patch. Also shoot Hornady great plains bullets real well but then loopy trajectory is an understatement. Pop hit his buffalo at about 40 yds trotting and it "trotted" three more leaps and was done.

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I ordered a batch of .570 Hornady balls, .010 and .015 shooting patches (cotton). I have 2f and 3f powder here. All the load data I have seen suggests 2f. I found that the 3f is what the TC .50 likes best. Investarms website says 100gr max, I was thinking to start a workup with 70gr and work up with both patches. I am looking primarily for minute of deer, but if I can get it to shoot as well as my TC .50 Hawkens I would be thrilled. By deer season, she should be ready to rock and roll!

Griz

Griz44Mag said:

... .010 and .015 shooting patches (cotton)....

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I'll be surprised if the .010 patches don't shred with a .570 ball, but in truth I never tried them with that diameter. My rifle preferred .018 patches with .570 balls. But in fact it did best with .010 patches when I moved up to .575 balls.

I'm definitely paying attention to your results, ready to learn more for background with my own rifle. Keep us posted! :thumbsup:

I have one and just shot aplump sow with it last night I use a .570 hornady round ball .016 patch and 80 grains of pyrodex 2F

BrownBear said:

Griz44Mag said:

... .010 and .015 shooting patches (cotton)....

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I'll be surprised if the .010 patches don't shred with a .570 ball, but in truth I never tried them with that diameter. My rifle preferred .018 patches with .570 balls. But in fact it did best with .010 patches when I moved up to .575 balls.

I'm definitely paying attention to your results, ready to learn more for background with my own rifle. Keep us posted! :thumbsup:

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If I can get a good group with the .570 then great, if not the next bag-o-balls will be .575 and I'll start over again. For me, that's a lot of fun, it's not all about killing something. I love the sound of steel getting smacked with a big ball!

Hi,
I really enjoy shooting the .58.
I have two, a percussion & a flint.
Just a point to consider, shooting at the bench, you can use any combination that you wish, but shooting in the field, is a whole different story, there, everything has to go smoothly, or you are walking home with a broken ramrod or a ball stuck half way down the barrel.
In some cases the .575 ball shoots well at the bench, with your ball starter, range rod, and even perhaps a hammer/mallet, and your choice of patches. You may even have some cleaning supplies.
All of that will not work in the field.
Some .58's prefer a .565 or a .570 ball and .015, or even .020 patches.
So unless you have a mallet, brass ramrod, and sturdy ball starter, think what your .58 likes most. A .58 is good on buff, elk, moose, deer, Ontario squirrel, ground hog, prarie dog, coyote, cans, and what ever stands in front of it.
If you only have one....you need two!
Fred

Old Ford said:

Hi,
Just a point to consider, shooting at the bench, you can use any combination that you wish, but shooting in the field, is a whole different story, there, everything has to go smoothly, or you are walking home with a broken ramrod or a ball stuck half way down the barrel.
In some cases the .575 ball shoots well at the bench, with your ball starter, range rod, and even perhaps a hammer/mallet, and your choice of patches. You may even have some cleaning supplies.
All of that will not work in the field.

So unless you have a mallet, brass ramrod, and sturdy ball starter, think what your .58 likes most.
Fred

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Definitely food for thought! I have all the little goodies including a sturdy 3/8" brass rod with a shrink tube on it when I am at the range, and none of those when afield. I only carry the gun and a small pouch with a 3 ball board, a small flask with powder, a capper strip, a ball starter, a canteen and a bag of trail mix. I am not concerned with follow up shots, as I have not used more than one shot on any deer in at least 40 years now. If I don't have a 99.99% knowledge of EXACTLY where my round is going to land, I don't take the shot. I wait for a full broadside at a distance I am confident at, or the critter gets a pass. In the event I need a coupe de grace, I carry a sidearm, but by the grace of God, he has blessed me and I have never had to use it. (on a game animal at least).
TX Griz

With your great advice and insight, I will keep close to heart this while I work up loads this summer. If I can't load it with the rifle rod, it won't go the hunt with me. Thank you for this, I had not considered that.

I have an Investarms/Cabelas Hawken .58 percussion that was my introduction to muzzleloading. I bought it "by accident" while shill bidding a fund raising auction, but what a serendipitous purchase it was. Being the ultimate muzzleloading greenhorn (way in over my head!) it took me a while to realize how lithe and lively of a muzzleloader it was with that 15/16 barrel. And it groups very nicely, especially considering the loose nut on the trigger!

I'd love to have the same rifle in flintlock. I posted a WTB an a couple of boards back in early February when I happened to have some cash in my pocket. I got no replies and a fine bargain on a used custom rifle caught my eye - and my cash. Sure enough I got a belated offer on a flintlock .58 Investarms/Cabelas Hawken right after I committed to the other purchase and couldn't afford the Investarms at that time. Darn! So I'm still on the hunt for one of these in flintlock. (Nudge, nudge. Hint, hint.)

I've got three 58's one is a TVM early Va or so they say flintlock,one is an Investarms 58 Hawkin. and one is a TC Hawkin from their custom shop NIB unfired. With the 2 I shoot I use a 562 ball which is actually cast at 565 566 with my mixture of lead and WW.Both take a denim patch.Both can be thumb started. The Investarms is loaded with 110gr of FFg Goex and the TVM shoots best with 120gr

Both of these rifles are very accurate with these loads. The Investarms being the easiest to carry

Well, the new (to me) 58 showed up in the mail yesterday. The brass is shiney and has not a single mark on it anywhere. The stock is in the same condition. Not a single handling mark and shined like a newly waxed Miata. I ran a bore scope down the barrel, yes it has been shot, but very little. I did find something very interesting in the barrel though. The little plastic bar that is left over from a tag hanger that gets poked through cloths was very firmly planted in the breech powder chamber, turned crossways and solidly wedged about 3/4" from the bottom. Strange goings on for sure..... Took a bit, with a little ingenuity, a small rod, a curl of spring from a ball point pen and a trip down the barrel with the bore camera and rod taped together. I managed to hook it and pop it loose. I have in the past found some odd critters in barrels and pipes, but this was a new one. It will be a week or so before I can get to the range with it, but if it shoots half as good as it looks, it will be a winner...
TX GRIZ

Previous owner likely could not get the gun to fire with that lil tag blocking the works! Good find :thumbsup:

Congrats! They're fine guns, and here's hoping yours suits you as well as mine suits me!

Ok, I finally got some quiet time to spend with the .58. We went out early while there was still some dew on the grass and had the range almost entirely to myself. I had mounted a peep sight on the rifle, and was waiting for the a good time to get it sighted in. I set up a large paper target at 40 meters, and took the first shot - about 2 feet low. So I started cranking up the rear, and right before I ran out of screw, I finally got it centered. I think I need to start looking for a little shorter front sight. After getting it sighted in, I hung a gong at 50 meters, 75 meters and 100 meters. I worked my way down the range reconnoitering at each distance. When I got to 100 meters, all the adjustment was used up, but she was on target.
The target in the picture is a 16" steel gong hanging at 100 meters. There are 3 distinct groups produced with 3 different patches. The powder is 85gr GOEX 2f, the cap is CCI #11, The ball is Hornady swagged .570. These were all shot from a bag with sights pointed at dead center of plate. I shot 1 with .010, 1 with .015 and 1 with .018, then repeated the sequence twice. They grouped by the patch thickness. The last two were added with .018 patches to make 5 rounds total using .018.
This was a really fun day, burned almost a full pound of powder and consumed all the .570 balls I had.
Pictures are in the link below. Now I am going to go soak my shoulder from the inside with some fine sipping, on a rock or two. This thing is light enough that it will send you to the truck to find some padding.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gE8bb8wDAGU5oK7NA

TX Griz

Old Ford makes a good point about being able to load in the field. I have two .58's. One is a T/C Renegade with a "Big Boar" .58 barrel. The other is a Browning Mountain Rifle with a Bobby Hoyt re-bored .58 barrel with 1:66 twist. The Browning shoots well with 80 grains of 2f, but with 120 grains of 2F my trajectory flattens out pretty well. This gun can handle it, and it is heavy enough to tame some of the recoil. The T/C likes 100 grains of 2f. I could never get any decent groups with less than 90 grains with this gun. I generally use .018 ticking patches with TOW mink oil lube as it doesn't stiffen up in cold weather. I have made a pocket reload kit for the .58 that contains two powder charges, 2 patched balls, 4 caps, and short starter for the hunting field. If you would send me a PM I can show you a picture of it.

Sounds like a great day with very good shooting added to the mix.

Griz44Mag said:

Now I am going to go soak my shoulder from the inside with some fine sipping, on a rock or two. This thing is light enough that it will send you to the truck to find some padding.

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That makes me wonder where on your shoulder you're mounting the butt of the rifle when you shoot. I have the same rifle and my usual load of 90 grains of 2f is an all-day shooter with no discomfort. However, I shoulder the rifle with the my elbow cranked up high and the butt on my arm outside of the shoulder joint and on the arm.

Atsa way hooked butts were intended to be shot, but if a guy is shooting from the bench the tendency is to drop your arm, moving the butt onto your shoulder joint, or worse yet, your collar bone. Neither is a happy situation! :shocked2: