Making the change...

This is no biggie to the folks on this forum, but in my 20+ years of hunting/shooting muzzleloaders I'm going to finally make the switch to real black powder. Shot Pyrodex early on with my father and switched to T7 maybe 8-10 years ago (don't recall for sure). I've always had good success with T7 with PRBs, T/C Maxi Balls, and Hornady GPs but recently started casting Lee REALs and started having some minor misfire issues.

Ordered a few pounds of the house made powder from Graf's. Will check in once I get a chance to shoot it.

The only short coming that I have found with black powder is availablety. There’s plenty of brands and grades to try so finding what’s best for your needs is out there.

Yeah. About a half dozen or so different manufacturers. Not nearly so daunting a task as trying to find the right powder for a smokeless powder cartridge gun. For best best best type accuracy, it seems most target shooters prefer Swiss, but most people don't shoot well enough to take advantage of it, particularly from the standing position.

I use quite a bit of Swiss 1.5 in cartridge black powder guns but prefer the Goex 2F and 3F for muzzle loading arms. I have noticed the fouling is harder from Swiss than is Goex in my guns.

With the prices at Graf's ($15.99/lb, $7.95 for shipping and $20 haz mat), I bought 5 pounds for less per pound than I could get T7. So, what the heck...

What are everyone's experiences with Graf's powder vs. the "name brand" varieties that are out there. Seems lots of people use Goex and Swiss is highly regarded.

Nothing quite gives you the experience of shooting black powder like real black powder does...

dsayer said:

With the prices at Graf's ($15.99/lb, $7.95 for shipping and $20 haz mat), I bought 5 pounds for less per pound than I could get T7. So, what the heck...

What are everyone's experiences with Graf's powder vs. the "name brand" varieties that are out there. Seems lots of people use Goex and Swiss is highly regarded.

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I've only used Goex ffg for 40 years, and have just started using Goex Olde Eynsford ffg and I really like it, having shot it in just two range sessions so far. My new GPR .50 certainly likes it.
I only use BP. Haven't used Graf's house brand powder, but I do buy my Goex from them.

Colorado Clyde said:

Nothing quite gives you the experience of shooting black powder like real black powder does...

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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I use Graf's powder which is reported to be relabeled Schuetzen. I found it to be at least as good as GOEX. Both are a little dirty and the difference between the two is negligible in my opinion.

I found it to be at least as good as GOEX. Both are a little dirty and the difference between the two is negligible in my opinion

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Ditto on that. I'm saving $7.00 a can compared to OTC GOEX prices where I live. Yes, it's a decent amount of coin to get a case (you can buy less but I pay the least with buying a mixed case), So I have several fellow shooters that go-in with me, and we share the costs. I need 2Fg for live loads with shotguns and muskets, and 3Fg for the rifles. Then there's target shooting..., so the savings add up.

I'd like to help folks going to the Ft. Fred Market Fair with obtaining a pound or two of inexpensive BP, heck even if they're not going to be shooting at the event, while there it might be nice to score a pound or two for the coming fall. However, the laws for the parks and the rules for the event prevent that, and the laws for vending off the property are pretty tight too in Maryland as well as Federal, so it's just too big a hassle. Just delivering "pre-paid-for powder" from my station wagon to the campers who bought, and rendezvousing at the local gas station as they head up the road to the fort, would probably mean I'd have to meet hazmat transport regulations since I'd have so much of the stuff. :shake:

LD

Thanks all! Looking forward to reporting back.

I definitely need to find a few buddies for buying a case in the future. Problem is most of the guys in my September hunting crew either 1) live out of state, 2) don't hunt with a traditional muzzleloader, and/or 3) don't shoot nearly as often as I do. Two guys do hunt with traditional guns, but I shoot 5x (at least) as often as they do. Heck, a pound would last them a couple years probably...

I figure I can get by with 5lb batches for the time being.

Thanks again everyone! :bow:

Quick range update from last evening.

My powder arrived from Graf's yesterday afternoon so I headed to the indoor range down the street where I'm a member to smoke up the place.

I get to my lane, load the old girl up, put her to my shoulder for my first ever shot with real BP and... Pop. No boom. No smoke. :td: New cap. Same result. Rinse and repeat 4 or 5 times. :cursing: Pull the ball, clean as best I can, and change to a new nipple (the first was actually a brand new nipple as well), same result. Zero ignition. :cursing: :cursing:

Pull the ball again and this time drop a small charge of my old powder (FFG T7), which gives a pretty long hang fire but finally goes off. Loaded a full charge (85gr) of T7 and she fires like usual, beautifully. Shot 3 more times with T7 with the same good result. :hmm: I'm thinking, what's that thing about it not being broke??

Switch back to the Graf's FFG, and BOOM! Fires off great with no issue. Repeat 10-15 more times with a combos of round balls and REALs with no problems. :idunno:

Here's a link to a representative group (sorry can't figure out how to post photos from my phone yet). I know it's only 25 yards but not bad.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/95870650@N03/x71e1c

I expected the BP to be more dirty, but didn't expect it to be this substantial. A swab with a damp patch was an absolute necessity. The fouling was thick and black (see photo link below after one shot). I also noticed a fair amount of sparks flying out the barrel.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/95870650@N03/9tcVB4

I don't know what to think about the early issues. Maybe something lodged in there that somehow didn't get cleaned out last time. However, the thick crud and sparks make me think I'm not getting a full burn. The range closed before I had a chance to do much more experimenting, but I'm at a bit of a loss. Curious to hear people's thoughts on this experience. :bow:

The failure to fire was (IMO) due to the flame channel hole between the bottom of the nipple and the bore.

Most likely some oil from the last time you cleaned the gun got into the hole and remained there.

If this happens some of the new powder charge will get oil soaked. Oil soaked black powder is difficult to ignite so the fouled powder creates a sort of dam and blocks off the hole.

Usually, firing a cap on the nipple before loading the first shot will blow out most of the oil which explains why the old timers often 'popped a cap' on the nipple before loading their guns.

Another way to remove any oil in the flame channel is to run a smoking pipe cleaner thru the flame channel by removing the nipple and forcing it thru the hole at the bottom of the threaded port.
Some guys put denatured alcohol on the pipe cleaner first while others just pour a bit of it down the bore letting it run out the nipple.
If you do use this pouring it down the barrel method remember, it takes the alcohol time to evaporate and if it is not evaporated it can also foul the new powder charge.

The best way of preventing oil problems in the flame channel is, after cleaning and oiling the gun, store it muzzle down so rather than having the oil run into the flame channel, it just runs out of the bore.

As for the fouling in the bore, welcome to the real world of black powder.

Yes, the fouling is a PITA but in a clean gun without oil in the works, the powder will fire almost instantly, every time. :grin:

Thanks Zonie!

I figured as much with the flame channel being the issue at first, and didn't want to blame that on the powder right away. I too used to always pop a cap before loading but fell out of the habit 5 or so years ago. Just never had issues and figured I could save a cap... I'll be sure to get back into that habit from now on. I've never thought about leaving the gun barrel down after cleaning before. That's a genius idea.

This does bring up a thought though. Do you all feel like BP is more or less sensitive to moisture and/or leaving the gun loaded for days on end compared to subs? I do a 9 day elk hunting trip in the wilderness and usually leave my gun loaded for at least a few days at a time.

Good to hear the degree of fouling doesn't seem outrageous. Lots of sparks out the barrel also to be expected?

I always pop at least one cap before loading, most times 2 caps. Always have ”” drilled into me as a new Civil War re-enactor some 30 years ago as a safety inspection measure before going on the field. Put the barrel about an inch from some grass and pop the cap and see if it moves. Should clear any oil out. If the grass doesn't move, you know something ain't right. And when I hunted deer, I always cleared my rifle at the end of the day and started with a new charge the next day. Didn't like leaving powder in a barrel overnight, and I didn't want to take chances with moisture messing with the BP. That's just me :idunno:
And ... welcome to black powder. It's a little bit dirty and gritty and smelly, but there's nothing like it. I swab between shots at the range and get a lot of crud out of the barrel too. It generally gets better the more you shoot it though. :hatsoff:

SgtMaj said:

And when I hunted deer, I always cleared my rifle at the end of the day and started with a new charge the next day. Didn't like leaving powder in a barrel overnight, and I didn't want to take chances with moisture messing with the BP. That's just me :idunno:

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I agree with this practice and do the same when deer hunting in Nebraska. But when I'm backpacking 4-5 miles from anywhere, weight in the pack comes at a premium so I usually try to use the same charge for a couple days at least. Sounds like another experiment... :hmm:

Looking forward to more BP adventures!

Before you fire your first shot soak a patch with denatured alcohol then squirt a little down the barrel, and run the patch home....If alcohol squirts out the nipple....You're golden.

Oil ruins powder but alcohol doesn't.

Colorado Clyde said:

Before you fire your first shot soak a patch with denatured alcohol then squirt a little down the barrel, and run the patch home....If alcohol squirts out the nipple....You're golden.

Oil ruins powder but alcohol doesn't.

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Will do! :thumbsup:

I carry a small 1 ounce squirt bottle like this....



An empty hand sanitizer bottle works too.

Well, I'll be!!!

Em's jus lik ole' Danial used ta use!!!!



No. Not Boone. Danial Quagmire who lived down at the end of tha holler.

:rotf: