THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS?

Our local ML club in Tucson holds a match every 3rd Sunday. Slowly, but most assuredly, the active membership is diminishing in spite of posting invitations at all the gun stores in Tucson.

Question: Is this the trend in your areas or clubs?
Is there any solution?

I shoot alone for the most part and have never been in a gun club or even to a shoot. But what would draw a crowd as such ye seek?

Free food! bbq, burgers, potato salad, soft drinks, chips, dip, hot dogs.

Make sure you advertise to allow folks to shoot an ol Dan'l Boone rifle musket, or Davy Crocket gun.

Put fliers up ALL OVER like grocery store bulletin boards, local parks (with sports courts), ask if you can post at Sportsmans Warehouse type retailers. When ya just hit the gun stores yer reaching out to the guy thats there to buy a brick of .22 or .223 and has no interest other than his quest for more and faster and newer and shinier. Maybe a museum would let ya post?

Offer to mentor a scout troop (they have a few black powder merrit badges, least last time I knew). Look for the young kids, pre teens up and hang fliers where they hang out or shop.

However yer probably pretty close when ya think were a dying breed. Electronic age and all. Still, most of us had a choice bewtween a .22 auto or our preferred musket fetish :idunno: Fetish....? Oh never mind not there :nono:

The only reason I got into muzzleloading was to take advantage of muzzleloading hunting seasons. I was in my mid thirties then.
Many were the same as me and didn't graduate into inlines. Along with the suggestions above, target sportsmen's clubs and the like.

I've never been enthralled with punching holes in paper except to tune in a gun. To me it's not near as much fun as hunting the real thing.

Oakgall said:

Our local ML club in Tucson holds a match every 3rd Sunday. Slowly, but most assuredly, the active membership is diminishing in spite of posting invitations at all the gun stores in Tucson.

Question: Is this the trend in your areas or clubs?
Is there any solution?

Click to expand...

I'm going to say something that I know will inflame the nether regions of many readers. Let me say that it is not what I want to say but it seems to be the only way to solve the problem. It is undeniably true that the number of people who are interested in "traditional" muzzleloading rifles is in a steep decline. It seems inevitable that clubs and groups who stick tenaciously to the rule of excluding all modern muzzleloading rifles from their group will soon die away. The numbers don't lie. I think the solution is to start including the modern stuff in your group. You will have to have separate matches for them because it is not fair for a modern scoped rifle to compete with a traditional rifle with iron sights. The membership fees and match fees from these folks will keep your club going..........for a while. Just how long your muzzleloading club can remain viable is all up to the folks in your area and how well your club starts accepting the inevitable. I know that many folks will say that they would rather see their club fold up rather than accepting folks who shoot modern inline rifles. It's up to the club membership to decide whether to pull that plug. Just an old man's opinion, take it for whatever it is worth.

I don't totally agree or disagree but if you get inline shooters to attend, some of them might come over to the side locks and give them a try. Often it's just a matter of opportunity and once they have done it, they tend to like it and what to do more.

I agree on the Boy Scout thing. My grandson go into scouts and they got him into shooting and he loves it no matter what he is shooting. That's what we need are the young people and many do not have the opportunity to shoot anything, not alone MLs. I might also add boy scouts are also kind of dying out in some areas with all the new rules and regulations, changes and such which makes it more difficult to do their thing.

But what would draw a crowd as such ye seek?

Free food! bbq, burgers, potato salad, soft drinks, chips, dip, hot dogs.

That's a good idea for those that show up, but not advertised. (imho)
You'll end up with some ne'er do wells on meth, crack, or heroin coming in for the free meal..., :shocked2:

Make sure you advertise to allow folks to shoot an ol Dan'l Boone rifle musket, or Davy Crocket gun.

Put fliers up ALL OVER like grocery store bulletin boards, local parks (with sports courts), ask if you can post at Sportsmans Warehouse type retailers. When ya just hit the gun stores yer reaching out to the guy thats there to buy a brick of .22 or .223 and has no interest other than his quest for more and faster and newer and shinier. Maybe a museum would let ya post?


That's a good idea, but while WE understand the reference, do you think the Millenials will? I mentioned to my coworker yesterday, "That's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Stanley." and he looked confused.

I then said "Laurel and Hardy, and I'm the fat guy ..., Hardy.., so you as the skinny guy are Stanley."

Followed by a look of total confusion. He'd never heard of Laurel & Hardy, and he's 34.

Try this instead....,

Assassin's Creed! Sure, you've played the video game, but have you ever actually shot a flintlock gun? Would like to see what it's really like? The [fill in club name here] are holding an intro to flintlocks on [date] at [location]. Safe, expert instruction by highly experienced teachers. Bring the whole family. Don't just play the game. Get off the couch! Actually try the guns."

OR here's another variation... a reference for one of the most popular cable TV series ever...many Ren Fairs have even adopted special weekends for this yet it's not really part of the Renaissance ..., heck a lot of US got into BP from TV...

BLACK SAILS FANS! Sure, you've seen the series, but have you ever actually shot a flintlock gun? Would like to see what it's really like? The [fill in club name here] are holding an intro to flintlocks on [date] at [location]. Safe, expert instruction by highly experienced teachers. Bring the whole family. Don't just be a fanboy or fangirl, Get off the couch! Actually try the guns."


Relate the flintlocks to the one of the most popular, first person games that amazing numbers of Millenials (male and female) have played, or to a cable TV series that a bunch of people have seen, and see if that doesn't bring out a few newbies!


Offer to mentor a scout troop (they have a few black powder merrit badges, least last time I knew). Look for the young kids, pre teens up and hang fliers where they hang out or shop.

That's also a good idea. I got my first view of BP from the AMM camp at the National Scout Jamboree in 1976. So while one troop is good, I think it's better to reach out to an event like a Camporee, or a Jamboree, and also look at your local Venture Crews [a boy & girl advanced Scouting activity]. Many more possible newbies when you increase the numbers due to an event. Plus, don't forget the Royal Rangers.

LD

Howdy,
I've mentioned this before on here, but will do so again.
I first went to a shoot held by our local ML club about 2 1/2-3 years ago. I've been sporadically involved with them since. They are a mostly older crowd, very set in the ways they set up matches. They put very tiny targets way out there, that only the best, most dedicated, experienced, few club members can shoot consistently. It's been a total turn off to newbies, myself included. They need to take some hints from SASS (also full of older shooters; they appear to have adapted to the changing shooter demographic better than the ML's) and move the targets in and make them larger so most people can actually hit them! Without positive shooting reinforcement, new shooters will get frustrated, give up and go find a different gun game. They won't stick around; they didn't grow up with Fess Parker, Jeremiah Johnson and don't give a hoot about American history. It's the shooting that has to hold them.
I've practiced enough over several years and gone through enough rifles, that I have finally become good enough to actually hit those way out targets, but I know I am an exception in this fashion.
I and my husband (also a ML shooter from long ago), recently approached the club leadership with the offer to put together a match next fall which would be a sort of mixing of SASS and MM, with stages involving rifle, single shot pistol or BP revolvers, throwing hawks, knives etc and scenarios covering 1820's-1850's. They seem enthusiastic about it and I hope it will come to pass and they will enjoy it. We will see...

I think LD has some good ideas on targeting some of the millenials. Another idea might be to post in some of the online hunting forums talking about the club and events.

I blame technology. Until the 1950s camping was pretty much unchanged from 1750. Oh for sure there was blue speckled ware in the place of tin and OD green canvas in the place of linen canvas but the experience was largely the same.
The past was cool. TV movies, books all celebrated the past. Tech was scary and nerdy.
Since then the worlds changed. Tech is our new magic. Our entertainment celebrates next generation.
Our guns are easy to shoot and can be shot well by a novice. And post shooting requires little care. Our society wants Easy care more fun less prep.
Want to be a foodie? Mail order companies sends you easy cook meals. A robot can vacuum your house and a refrigerator can order food to fill itself.
Shooting a smelly difficult to load gun that requires a learning curve and a lot of care just isn’t that appealing. And then we have to compete with backwoodsmen do it your selfers, ultralight campers ect.
We were not all that nerdy in the 1970s but have gotten increasingly out of fashion since then.and going along with LDs point we have a big level of elitism and that tends to turn people off.

It is not just ml clubs. Organizations of all kinds are seeing membership drops. Younger (under 60) people are just not 'joiners' anymore. Probably a result of many other activities that keep folks busy these days.

I can speak from experience in some archery clubs. I shoot traditional bows, and attend some traditional shoots. However, most archery clubs cannot survive with only a traditional bowhunter membership. Most successful clubs open up to modern bows as well (compound bows) because, well, the number of compound bowhunters well outnumber us recurve and longbow shooters. Their entry fees and attendance at shoots brings in income for the club to survive. And at tournaments, the styles of bows are divided into separate classes so nobody shooting a recurve barabow is competing with a tech-ed out modern compound bow. And lots of clubs also hold traditional only shoots on certain dates.

Something to consider in order for a club to survive in our dwindling outdoorsman society.

Im not a member of a club, even though one meets at least once a month at the range I regularly shoot at. In my case; Im just too damned lazy to get up early enough to be at the range by 7am on a Sunday, the time they gather. Its my day off, and I usually stay up VERY late on Saturday to attend a get together some friends and I have weekly.

Add the following: I am on a lower income budget. I pay $110 a year for both my wife and I to be members of the range so I can avoid the $10 per person per day range fee, (Yes I realize this is WELL below the normal fees for many ranges). I like to shoot, but if I had to add the $10 a day fee I wouldn't go more than 8-10 times a year. As the range is only 15 minutes away I am there at least once every three weeks on average.

In addition; the ML club usually has a participation fee on top of the range fee, (or at least they used to). Its not much, but on an already tight budget $5 could be too much.

Add to whats been said alread by other posters this: The cost of a basic, entry level muzzle loader is $429 at sportsman's warehouse. Hawken Woodsman

I lost a person genuinely interested in getting one after shooting mine when he found that out; his words "I can buy another Henry for that much or less".

The sad fact is our chosen weapons are expensive as firearms go. When a younger person who has been allowed to shoot one, and thinks they MIGHT want to try it, see's that (s)he can buy an unmentionable for less at Walmart (s)he will just blow the hobby off all together.

Any activity that requires one to go outdoors and takes " valuable " time away from a computer or video screen is not looked at favorably by most younger people.

Also, the colonial and frontier period is seen more and more as a time when white Europeans committed genocide against native peoples, and the guns we are talking about were the tools that made the genocide possible.

Not saying that's the way I see it, but it is what's being taught in the public schools most of our kids and grandkids go to.

smoothshooter said:

Any activity that requires one to go outdoors and takes " valuable " time away from a computer or video screen is not looked at favorably by most younger people.

Click to expand...

Of all the things I posted, and others has, THIS I can attest from experience is the biggest hurdle. My 23 yo son is an example. He says he wants to go shoot with me. He is supposed to go with me tomorrow, but I will not be the least bit surprised if he at the last minute bows out, deciding instead to read a book or play a video game on his PS4

Another thing working against introducing new shooters to shooting of any kind is the fact that so many people have little or no access to a PLACE to shoot.
Most that do are forced to go to a regular shooting shooting range, as I am most of the time ( for now ).

Having to shoot at an organized shooting range takes a lot of the fun out of shooting, for me at least. I have been lucky enough most of my life to be able to shoot at my own place, in the front yard, or off the front porch, if I wanted. Removing a screen out of a window and shooting out of the house in bad weather was not uncommon for me at all.

I tend to agree. Inline shooters might actually see the quality and aesthetics of shooting traditional MLs and real black powder, and come into the light, rather than staying on the dark side. It's certainly a thought.
(Sorry, I saw too many Star Wars movies over the years, and I sometimes break out in analogies :idunno: )
I notice when I'm just about the only person shooting MLs and BP at my outdoor range, when I do shoot in a crowd, I get lots of looks and questions. It seems there is a dearth of knowledge out there about shooting MLs. About the only guys that give me a wink and a nod are the ones with grey beards and lined faces.

Young people are starting to turn away from "e" life.
Everything's a cycle.
Some people like to bash away at each other with swords. Some would prefer to shoot a clay pot off of each others heads.
There's hope yet.

Or maybe just splitting a ball on an axe blade.
That's a challenge that got my blood up.

For what its worth, the Perth Black Powder Muzzle Loading Club, seems to have new members signing each year. We advertised an open day at the range inviting interested members of the public to come and shoot under close supervision the various rifles, muskets and handguns. Quite a few of our members donated time and ball, the club donated powder. We had a lot of interest and did get I think 3 or 4 new members. Interestingly the girls and ladies that came along shewed quite a lot of keeness too. Some of the younger shooters would like a few more fun shoots, and I agree with them. I have spoken of even an inter club comp with the lever action boys using the steel silhouette range as we did in my old club back in Adelaide South Australia. Was often a toss up who won it, often a muzzle loader !

Smoothshooter is correct.

While I was never into any sort of shooting club, I got into 18th century reenacting and gunsmithing shortly after high school, during the Golden Age of the early 1990's (I really do wish I could go back, or wish that I had taken much better advantage of that time). Not long after that, I began seeing a dramatic decrease in participation, vendors, and events. And it was not just strictly muzzleloading related, anything and everything historical began to suffer quite a bit. Museums and historical sites all over the country were feeling the hit. In the early 2000's, many could barely maintain their grounds, as I witnessed myself. I have seen it here, too, on the internet. Once-busy message boards suddenly began to decline in traffic many years ago, and now there are but a trickle of comments here and there, as opposed to the constant conversations of multiple participants of the past.

There has been an equally, if not more, dramatic change in America itself in these past 20 years or so. And not for the better. The very face and character of what is left of America is VASTLY different than what I used to know. Suffice to say, people in America today are NOT interested in the history of the "evil White man", and are generally not interested in history at all (though much fantasy "history" is quite popular). And it goes beyond them simply being uninterested, they actively oppose us and our history, guns, shooting, etc. I could easily go on and on, but simply put, nothing is going to "revive the hobby".

I have been completely out of anything 18th century for several years now. Last rifle I managed to make was about 4 years ago, and I haven't touched a flintlock since. In addition to some personal issues that have kept me from it, I found the world, and the future ahead to be simply too serious and bleak for me to be able to go around playing 18th century. Way too much other stuff to worry about and take care of while I still can. Without really knowing, I might dare say that many others have left the hobby for similar reasons.

I am actually trying to get myself back together and into the hobby again, but I don't know how successful I'll be at it.