Cleaning the Pedersoli .45 Navy Moll Flintlock Pistol

I purchased a used Pedersoli Navy Moll Flintlock recently, locally. I paid a bit over $400, and am pleased in both saving $$$ and in getting a Used Firearm.

Although everyone loves NEW, I am reluctant to fire a new gun. It devalues them so much ! (yeah, a bit silly, I suppose)

Other than considerable wear to the face of the Frizzen (18), it appears as new.

I've not fired it yet, myself, and wish to be fully informed before I do.



This is my first Flintlock, and I initially did not realize I needed to remove the Barrel (30) and Vent Insert (34) to clean this properly.

I acquired some GRACE Screwdrivers, identified the ones that fit perfectly (G3, H2, N2), and removed the Barrel and Vent Insert with no issue.

But I was surprised to see the full Bore does not extend thru to the Vent Insert, but stops just forward of it. Leaving a much smaller hole that does extend to the Vent Insert.

How can I clean this small internal area properly ?

Should I, can I remove the Breech Plug (04) ?

Is it necessary to do even further disassembly ?

I also noticed the Stock (5), in the normally hidden area that the Barrel fits into, is unfinished.

Should I Wax it ? Shellac it ? Leave it Raw ?

And as an observation, which others have made, the Fore End Cap Screw (28) is really tiny. I suppose Pedersoli knows more than me, but its diminutive size is not reassuring.

You do not have to remove the barrel and vent to clean it properly. Never remove the breech plug unless absolutely necessary. The unfinished and unexposed wood won't be a problem however if it bothers you it could be varnished or you can glass bed the barrel which will take care of it. A friend used to treat the channel with Thompsons water sealer, don't know if it worked but it didn't hurt either. I have lined the entire lock mortise on a couple of guns with epoxy effectively sealing it from moisture and that works very well. The factory stock finish will give adequate protection for shooting and cleaning. The small screw will be a problem if you drop it or tighten it with a death grip on the screwdriver otherwise not an issue. Good luck and let us know how it shoots.

Hi, I also have a Pedersoli flintlock pistol. Mine is the Kentucky in .54. My barrel was constructed the same as yours. Cleaning was not a problem as the barrel is very easy to remove and dunk in water to flush it out. My issue was I could not get the gun to discharge after 3 shots as the fouling plugged up that little compartment (for lack of a better description).

Based on some advice from a member on this board I drilled out that little wall in there and no more plugs. You just need to measure and get the right size bit that won't mess up the rifling and carefully drill it out. Goes off every time now. As a second note I also thought the lock needed some tuning and so I sent it to Brad Emig at Cabin Creek and had it tuned. She shoots like a champ now. Very reliable and accurate.

I bought mine new as a kit. I do agree that the little screw through the nose piece is lacking however I have not had any issues with is but I also don't shoot real heavy loads. There is a remedy suggested somewhere either on this site (might have been Zonie) or you tube but I have not done that as yet. :thumbsup:

Good Luck,

Dave

I'm not drilling anything ! I would totally screw it up.

But I will invest in some small bore brushes, so as to get into there.

The former owner shot mine over 300 times, and I see no wear anywhere - other than the Frizzen (obviously).

I'll be lucky to shoot it 30 times. There just aren't any Ranges near me that would not require me to join.

And I'm sticking to 30G FFF, which is what he used.

So I won't sweat that tiny screw - though I still don't like it.

I need to figure out a way to measure that tiny hole.

Mebe I'll bring the barrel to Home Depot and stick some dowels down the bore.

First, I'll measure the Ram Rod. The hole will be smaller than that.

Your gun and your choice. I felt the same way about drilling but got so frustrated I tried it and it was simple. Good luck shooting.

Dave

I'd sure like to know more about what you drilled and how you drilled it.

I just acquired the Pedersoli Kentucky pistol in .45 and am keenly interested in whatever might help make it shoot accurately and reliably and make it easier to maintain efficiently.

I'm thinking to really do it properly, one would have to set it all up in a proper vise, on a Drill Press (or Lathe ?).

And following the drilling, a Reamer.

I wonder if shifting a significant amount of the BP back into that hole would occur.

Do other Flintlocks, modern or vintage, have this feature ?

Bought one in cap several years back. New. Awful. Drum screwed half way into the barrel, rust from the factory, jagged rifling, nipple didn't line up with hammer, it was total junk and I returned it on refund.

Hope yours is better.

Just a word of caution as I don't want you getting "in over your head"[/color] :blah: In order to understand what I am talking about take a piece of wire and slide it down the lock side of your barrel and it will bottom out. Now mark the wire and then slide it down the side opposite the lock and if your barrel is like mine the wire will go in farther than the first mark as it will enter this chamber (patent breech) in the back of the barrel. The patent breech creates the problem with fouling. So 3 to 5 shots and I was done until I flushed the barrel out during cleaning. The link below is the original post where I got the info to fix this. He sent me the bit. I drilled it out, returned the bit and no more problems. As it turns out it was just a regular bit long enough to get to the back of the barrel. Just go slow and make sure the bit isn't big enough to mess up the rifling. Mine has been firing perfectly since then other than I had lock problems that I had to get fixed a few years after this issue was resolved. Good luck. PM me if you want any more info.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...285813/post/1356882/hl//fromsearch/1/#1356882

Dave

Simple solution is to just buy a patch worm smaller than the patent breech hole and wind a patch or a bit of tow around it moisten and wipe out the patent breech no problem.

Thanks for the link 58 caliber.

It doesn't make it at all clear what is being drilled, how big or how deep. Is it just a matter of chamfering the opening of the patent breech?

One poster said his chamber was only .18" diameter and he widened the chamber? Did I understand that correctly? .18" sounds awfully narrow, like an uncompleted job at manufacturing.

Or is it a matter of drilling out a protruding drum?

I will file this in the back of my mind until I see how my new pistol shoots - which might not happen until May. But if I have any difficulty completing a string of fire I might resort to something like this if necessary.

I will also consider DennisA's thoughts on the topic, too. Maintenance of the bore seems to require a little finesse sometimes to keep the reliability in prolonged firing.

58 caliber said:

Just a word of caution as I don't want you getting "in over your head"[/color] :blah: In order to understand what I am talking about take a piece of wire and slide it down the lock side of your barrel and it will bottom out. Now mark the wire and then slide it down the side opposite the lock and if your barrel is like mine the wire will go in farther than the first mark as it will enter this chamber (patent breech) in the back of the barrel. The patent breech creates the problem with fouling...

Click to expand...

From your description I don't think the chambered breech (sometimes called a patent breech) is the problem.

It really sounds like the vent liner is the culprit.

If the vent liner is too long and it is protruding into the bore it will do the exact thing you describe.

Now, for a little story I've told before.
I had just finished one of the flintlock rifles I built and couldn't wait to get it to the shooting range.

When I got there I loaded her up and "click,poof."
A misfire.

Picking the vent and repriming, I tried again.
"Click, poof."

It took several more attempts before it fired.

The next powder load was a repeat of the first try.

Scratching my head, I put the gun aside and shot the other guns I brought with me.

When I got home and started cleaning the gun the wet jagged patch stopped before hitting the breech plug so, after a bit of studying the situation I removed the vent liner and noticed that I had forgotten to cut it off so its length would match the barrel wall thickness.
After cleaning the gun, I shortened the vent liner so that it would no longer protrude into the bore.

After this fix, the gun fired first time, every time. :grin:

Getting back to the issue at hand, I suggest removing the vent liner if that is possible without damaging it. (Often, they will have a screw driver slot that allows one to simply unscrew it.)
Once the vent liner is out of the barrel, lay it across the muzzle, lining up the "outside end" with the side barrel flat and take a look at the end that's toward the bore.

If it is too long, it will overhang the bore and that is the problem.
Measure the amount of overhang and write it down. (A tape measure will do but measuring the barrel wall thickness and the vent liner length with a precision dial caliper is a better method. Subtract the barrel wall thickness from the vent liner length and write it down.)

To fix this problem you will need a vise or Vise Grips (or other locking pliers), a hexagon nut with threads that matches the threads on the vent liner and a metal cutting flat file.

Screw the vent liner into the nut so that the "bore end" of the vent liner is protruding from the face of the nut the same distance you determined with your measurements. Now, place the hex nut (with the vent liner in place) into a vise or the Vise Grips and tighten it.

Use the flat file to file the end of the vent flush with the face of the nut. Unclamp and remove the vent and install it back into the barrel.

You can double check to see if the liner is still protruding into the bore but if you did the measurements correctly the gun should be ready to shoot and it will give you no more trouble.

Well, the former owner admitted to firing my Navy Moll 300 times.

I do not think this particular gun was a lemon or a problem for him, as at the same time he was selling at least 2 or 3 other Pedersoli Pistols - at least one was new. I guess he was just tired of them.

So I expect it is well proven, though I can never be sure if he "customized" its internals. I doubt it, though.

The Vent Hole Insert came out very easily, and the "Patent Breech" appears to be very clean.

My plan is to bring my barrel to Home Depot, and using some rods or dowels, identify the approximate size of the small hole, and buy some brushes that fit it.

Ok -- so I took my bore camera and ran it down the barrel of my pistol. It is definitely not the liner that I drilled away. There is a chamber and it is round and I am wondering if I shouldn't drill more. Before I drilled it out it was partially covered. I looks like a small ring inside the barrel and has no rifling in it. The RB must stop at it. Boy picture is worth a thousand words here as I also stuck a paper clip in the flash hole and it is well behind this ring.. hope you can see the picture.

http://imemories.us/2GLinTc

The inside of your pistol looks exactly like the inside or the pedersoli pennsylvannia rifle I have. Of course mine is somewhat bigger but the shape is the same. I opened up my touch hole and I use a 357 brush it get in that area when I clean it. I bought some nylon brushes from brownells to do that with. I also wrap the nose of the brush with a patch to clean that area. I havent had any issues with ignition as long as I am doing my part on the outside. Al

Your picture shows a pretty much standard "chambered breech" which is a under bore size chamber that is supposed to fill with gunpowder when the gun is loaded.

There definitely should NOT be a wall between it and the actual bore in the barrel so if you had to drill thru a wall of any kind to open that area up I would consider it to be a manufacturing defect.

Well I wish I had the camera back when I had the issue as I definitely had to drill through a wall. Like I said 3 - 5 shots and that was it for the shooting. Shot it 25 times or so yesterday, no wiping between shots and never had a problem. I am happy. :grin:

Dave

58 caliber said:

Ok -- so I took my bore camera and ran it down the barrel of my pistol. It is definitely not the liner that I drilled away. There is a chamber and it is round and I am wondering if I shouldn't drill more. Before I drilled it out it was partially covered. I looks like a small ring inside the barrel and has no rifling in it. The RB must stop at it. Boy picture is worth a thousand words here as I also stuck a paper clip in the flash hole and it is well behind this ring.. hope you can see the picture.

http://imemories.us/2GLinTc

Click to expand...

The ring you are seeing is the end of the breech plug. While I believe that Pedersoli made the chamber in the breech plug too small in diameter, you do want strength in the breech plug so you don't blow the breech apart as seen in the photos of the Lyman breeches. You want a chamber thickness of at least 0.100" from the chamber wall to the bottom of the thread. Then a 38 caliber brush and cloth patch can clean the chamber of fouling.

The wall might have been a ring of hard fouling baked at the top of the breech chamber. First step is the sub caliber brush and patch in the chambered breech and a pipe cleaner through the touch hole.

Sorry to disagree. It was not a ring of hard fouling it was metal. I got metal filings out and the issue is gone.

Dave