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Login Name Post: Cowboys and Indians in the 1800's        (Topic#306584)
NWTF Longhunter 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1298
NWTF Longhunter
02-16-18 01:28 PM - Post#1669755    


This is about the damage a natives arrow did and how far it still penetrated after hitting the guy in the belt buckle first.
It happened in Texas


"The next event of interest happened in April, 1867. Some horses had been stolen from settlers east of us and a party of men, riding in hot haste to overtake the Indian marauders, came to our ranch where they were joined by my brothers, George and William, and Si Hough. They overtook the Indians at the Double Mountain Fork of the Brazos, a distance of thirty-five or forty miles from the Stone Ranch. They were loitering here, taking their ease and shooting buffaloes, thinking they were out of the danger zone. They were taken by surprise and only one escaped to tell the tale. They were outnumbered, there being ten white men to seven Indians.
One of our men, John Anderson, was shot through the arm, receiving a flesh wound, and a minie ball passed through William's sleeve. Brother George was the only one seriously hurt. He was shot with an arrow that entered his body just above the navel. He was wearing a United States Army belt buckle which was about two inches wide by three long. This buckle, we think, may have saved his life, as the arrow hit the edge of the buckle, breaking the force of the shot to some extent or it would doubtless have gone through his body. These arrows had great force when shot from strong Indian bows. He pulled the shaft out, but the head was left in his body, where it stayed fifteen years. At first they thought it possibly might have dropped in the loose sand when the shaft was taken out and have been covered, bu that was not the case, as was proven in after years....
The arrow head either went into the muscles of the back at first, or in some manner gradually worked its way to the back. Years afterward there was a knot pushed out near his spine which he suspected was the arrow head coming to the surface, and he was right about it, for in 1882 he went to Kansas City and had it taken out. The following are excerpts from an account in the Kansas City Journal of July 18, 1882:
'Yesterday afternoon there was removed from the body of George T. Reynolds, a prominent cattleman of Fort Griffin, Texas, an arrow head, two inches long. Mr. Reynolds had carried this head sixteen years, three months and fifteen days.
'On Friday last the gentleman came to this city and registered at the St. James hotel. His coming was for the purpose of having a surgical operation performed....
'On his back opposite the place where the arrow entered his body, he could feel its head. At last he decided to have it cut out and came to Kansas City as mentioned. Scales of rust were removed from the arrow head when it was taken from his body. The point was blunt as if it had been eaten off with rust.'
"There was no anaesthetic used and before going into the operation he exacted the promise from the doctor that he would stop when asked. Two friends went into the operating room with him to see him through. One of them ran out as soon as the doctor started work. The other, "Shanghai" Pierce, a well known cattleman of South Texas, became so excited when he saw the deep incision that he yelled, "Stop, doctor, you are cutting that man to the hollow." At this my brother called a halt. The cut had missed the arrow head, and had gone down by the side of it. Brother raised himself to the sitting posture and bent forward. The steel arrow head slipped out into the incision."
----- Sallie Reynolds Mathews, "Interwoven: A Pioneer Chronicle"

 
Grumpa 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2079
02-16-18 10:50 PM - Post#1669835    

    In response to NWTF Longhunter

I would think that the arrow head was buried in the muscle all those years, otherwise he would have suffered the pain of it working its way (cutting) all that time, with the accompanying internal bleeding. They were tough old boys.

Thanks for sharing, Ron.

Richard/Grumpa

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 8049
tenngun
02-17-18 02:09 AM - Post#1669850    

    In response to Grumpa

Bridger carried an arrowhead in his shoulder for some years till remove by Dr Wyath. There is a ten thousand year old body from the Columbia river that had a point in the hip and the bone had regrown around it.
Every few months I care for a person with a gunshot wound. Bullets are only removed now if there is a pressing reason. I have got a pat speech on why we leave them in. Family members oft get angry and believe we are not giving good care. Most people that get shot are from the lower economic classes and often think if they had insurance we would remove the bullet. No, its because we want the best outcome.

 
NWTF Longhunter 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1298
NWTF Longhunter
02-17-18 09:17 AM - Post#1669869    

    In response to tenngun

I've been carrying one BB, #6 shot in my face for 60 years. It hit me in the cartilage under my nose. I don't know if it's moved but it's never bothered me.

 
R.C.Bingaman 
40 Cal.
Posts: 293
02-17-18 01:13 PM - Post#1669909    

    In response to NWTF Longhunter

Do not know about humans but a few tears ago a 6 pt. buck was harvested. During the processing of the deer there was a modern broad head embedded in the vertebrae of his spine. It was apparently there for a good while, it seemed the bone was starting to form around it. Played a hard time on the meat saw blade.AN APPALICHIAN HUNTER

 
BillinOregon 
Cannon
Posts: 6552
02-19-18 08:51 AM - Post#1670216    

    In response to R.C.Bingaman

That's quite a story, NWTF. Thank you for posting it. Those arrows tipped with steel -- often cut from barrel bands -- look plenty mean. I have seen them at the Earnest Thompson Seton Museum at Philmont Scout Ranch in Cimmaron, NM, and at the Plains Panhandle Museum in Canyon, TX.
Tenngun, you are thinking of Dr. Marcus Whitman removing the arrow from Bridger's back. He and his wife, Narcissa, and 11 emigrants were murdered by Cayuse renegades in 1847.

https://www.nps.gov/whmi/learn/historyculture/operation.htm

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 8049
tenngun
02-19-18 10:37 AM - Post#1670239    

    In response to BillinOregon

Read your post and thought isn’t that what I said? So then I went back and reread what I posted don’t know where I picked Wyath from. So.... we all know that
Moses built the ark that Ulysses took to find the Golden Fleece and instead found the elephants that Alexander took over the Alps in to France where he married Ann Boleyn and fathered Danial Boone who went on to die at the Alamo with Robert Lee fighting Grant.

 
Spence10 
Cannon
Posts: 7003
02-19-18 11:57 AM - Post#1670252    

    In response to tenngun

  • tenngun Said:
So.... we all know that Moses built the ark that Ulysses took to find the Golden Fleece and instead found the elephants that Alexander took over the Alps in to France where he married Ann Boleyn and fathered Danial Boone who went on to die at the Alamo with Robert Lee fighting Grant.


What a relief it is to finally see you post something factual for a change.

Spence


 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 8049
tenngun
02-19-18 01:23 PM - Post#1670272    

    In response to Spence10

That’s high praise from you Spence, thankee kindly.

 
Spence10 
Cannon
Posts: 7003
02-19-18 02:54 PM - Post#1670306    

    In response to tenngun

I think our best hope for the hobby is in the young people, so it's important to encourage them when they show talent. Keep it up, we need you.

Spence

 
RJDH 
40 Cal.
Posts: 315
02-20-18 08:28 AM - Post#1670471    

    In response to tenngun

Tenngun,

History bites!

V. interesting story, in the OP.

Had an old friend now long gone, got a bullet in his heart on the Somme in 1916. He died in 1982 I think. Had X-rays of it. Lodged in bottom of his heart.
Bert could walk the legs off you. He was a gamekeeper at the bottom of Sutton Bank. (Thurlby)
in the North Riding of Yorkshire.

Richard.



 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 8049
tenngun
02-21-18 10:01 AM - Post#1670671    

    In response to RJDH

Preping someone for an MRI you ask if they did welding or machinist work. It is surprising how many people are walking around with hunks of metal in them.

 
Snakebite 
45 Cal.
Posts: 813
Snakebite
02-21-18 10:49 AM - Post#1670683    

    In response to tenngun

  • tenngun Said:
Preping someone for an MRI you ask if they did welding or machinist work. It is surprising how many people are walking around with hunks of metal in them.



Funny you should mention that, my cousin still has shrapnel in his chest and arm (the one he has left) courtesy of the Viet Cong, 1965. He's not allowed around an MRI.

A good book about "Cowboys and Indians" is "Indian Depredations In Texas" if you want to read about the interactions with Texans and Indians.

 
Pablom 
32 Cal.
Posts: 30
04-23-18 08:06 PM - Post#1681197    

    In response to Snakebite

Very neat story.

I wonder when they quit using stone points and got the streel ones.

I never find the stone ones. But my neighbor look in my field and get a few. Someday I'll find one..

 
satx78247 
Cannon
Posts: 6258
04-23-18 10:13 PM - Post#1681221    

    In response to RJDH

Until his passing at age 98, I had a cousin who carried a 8mm German bullet in his hip, from the Battle of The Somme in WWI. = The Army sawbones, who treated him for another wound, in the WWII period said that the bullet "was causing no real harm being left in place".
(He passed away, according to THE TEXARKANA GAZETTE from "the infirmities of old age" in MAY96.)

yours, satx


 
smoothshooter 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1100
04-24-18 10:26 PM - Post#1681400    

    In response to tenngun

And Bill Clinton freed the slaves by winning WWII.

Or at least a lot of young people nowadays would believe that if you told them.

 
smoothshooter 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1100
05-04-18 09:48 PM - Post#1683168    

    In response to RJDH

What the heck is Sutton Bank, and the "North Riding"'of Yorkshire?

 
Choctaw 
40 Cal.
Posts: 214
Choctaw
07-30-18 02:17 PM - Post#1695454    

    In response to NWTF Longhunter

I knew Watt Matthews, George Reynolds' nephew. Not great-nephew, but actual nephew. Watt died in 1997 and is buried beside his oldest sister who died in 1881.

The books Interwoven and Before Interwoven tell of the Reynolds and Matthews families as they settled Shackelford and Throckmorton counties. I grew up about fifteen miles north of the Lambshead Ranch and know that country like the back of my hand. For anyone interested in the pioneers of Texas, these are excellent books.

Edited by Choctaw on 07-30-18 02:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 8049
tenngun
07-30-18 05:16 PM - Post#1695467    

    In response to smoothshooter

  • smoothshooter Said:
And Bill Clinton freed the slaves by winning WWII.

Or at least a lot of young people nowadays would believe that if you told them.





???? Lots of folks do have metal pieces in their bodies

 
simon 
40 Cal.
Posts: 107
07-31-18 09:51 AM - Post#1695552    

    In response to smoothshooter

It’s a place in part of Yorkshire, United Kingdom, or England as some prefer.

 
RJDH 
40 Cal.
Posts: 315
08-05-18 08:57 AM - Post#1696155    

    In response to simon

Simon,

Thanks for answering Smoothshooter for me.
Computer was sick and just got it back a few days ago!

Are you from over there too? (UK?)

 
BillinOregon 
Cannon
Posts: 6552
08-10-18 12:59 PM - Post#1697088    

    In response to simon

Snakebite, thanks for recommending "Indian Depredations in Texas." Looking at the Amazon offerings, it appears some reprint editions are better than others.
When a young lad, I got to visit with my great-grandmother, born in 1858, and whose family moved back to Texas in 1866. She grew up around San Saba and then Buffalo Gap. My grandmother told me I could ask great-grandma about "horse and buggy days," but I was never to ask her about Comanches.
I treasure this tenuous link to the past.

 
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