• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Canoe Gun?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Canoe gun is a modern thing, Smokey.

We Do see cut -down trade guns used for running buffalo. Short barrel to make easy loading when on horseback.
Shooting was point blank.
I don't know of any first hand accounts of short "canoe guns".
 
There was no most common because it’s a fully modern term. As above guns did get cut down, due to damage or to make handy.
We use some terms today that are new, and have concepts that didn’t exist back then. During the great time of canoe traffic guns were pretty long. Likewise in the east where rifles were often made with 42-46 inch long barrels when many of the rifelmans were horse back. Any old gun could be cut off and reused.
Shorter barrels came in style in America mostly after the invention of the paten breech. Short barrels were played with since the first guns.
One likes to shoot what one gets used to. As modern guns are often short shooting short feels natural. The opposite was true in the old days. Long guns were the norm so short guns were ”˜unnatural ”˜. Many shortguns were made for specialized use. A worn or damaged gun was often sold for parts so one could get a full sized new gun.
That said blanket guns canoe guns muskatoons carbines andswan off whatevers are fun to shoot.
 
Canoe guns was a marketing term to help sell pretty much useless smooth bores. I have one, pretty much useless, hangs on the wall!
Nit Wit
 
Smokey Plainsman said:
What's the word on "canoe guns"?

Supposedly cut-down trade musket??

Any historical truth to this, and if so, what caliber and barrel length were most common?

-Smokey

Look here. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/906101/

Orders of Pierre Chouteau Jr. & Co., for the Upper Missouri trade.

Ft Pierre South Dakota

1850
W. Chance Son & Co., Birmingham
160--36 inch Barrels
110--42"
10---48"
Schuckard & Gebhard [importers],
Belgium guns
60--30 inch barrels
60--33"
60--36"
40--42"
English guns
300--30"
200--33"
200--36"

1851
W. Chance son & Co.
120--30"
170--33"
230--36"
40---42"
30---48"
Edw. K. Tryon, Philadelphia
47--30"
3---36"

1852
W. Chance Son & Co.
150--30"
150--33"
250--36"
30---39"
40---42"
30---48"

1853
W. Chance Son & Co.
60--30"
50--33"
90--36"
20--39"

1854
W. Chance Son & Co.
150--30"
150--33"
180--36"
80---39"
40---42"

1855
W. Chance Son & Co.
150--30"
150--33"
120--36"
20---42"



William Alexander
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Smokey,

On the plains, a shorter barrel was more convenient for horseback.
Up here and I'm sure down there as well, we see scrapers made from maybe 6 or 8" of gun barrels.
Quite often they were cut down shorter than 30" for buffalo running. I've seen them down to maybe 20 inches or so.

We do see some "reservation guns" and these we are told were cut down to hide under a blanket, but they may simply be buffalo running guns never handed in.
30" is fine for a trade gun on the prairies, and if you do buffalo running, you can make a 6-8" hide scraper and Still be OK!
No sense to a wee short effort in a canoe, and no provenance either as far as I can tell.

PS,
A short flint buffalo gun was found on the prairie east of here a few years back. (Flint trade gun) wood very checked, but still sound. Had a maybe 20 or 22" barrel. Sometimes they were lost in a buffalo run, and never recovered.
 
Well I have a NW Canoe gun. Built it myself and enjoy shooting it. As far a hitting things with it, I wouldn't like someone as good as I am, shooting at me from 50 yards. Hit almost every time at a 6 inch target. I have shot from a canoe with my 41 inch barrel and it is hard to load when the gun is almost laying flat. The short 20 inch barrel loads great and does shoot shot pretty good. I do enjoy shooting it, lots of fun. Eldo
 
What exactly are we calling a canoe gun. HBC did offer two and a half foot barrels, and I saw one plains rifle from the 1850s with a twenty four inch barrel.
My canoe gun had an eighteen inch barrel. It was a hoot to shoot and put more then one tree rat in to the pot. It had about half a pound of brass tacks and some rawhide wrappings just for looks.
It was a fun gun but had little to do with history.
If one wanted a short barrel gun they are hc guns that one can get.
 
The example that I can cite is that during the plan by Pontiac to capture Fort Macmillimacinaw (?) the natives cut down a number of trade guns to hide in their blankets for the surprise assault on the fort.

Short barreled guns were not unheard of, but certainly not common nor purpose built for use in a canoe. Yes, later muskets were built with short barrels for plains buffalo running. Yes, short barreled guns are fun to use and effective for some uses, but they are not well documented in the historical record.
 
Ah, you missed my question. I pointed out in my first response to this that canoe guns is a modern concept and not hc. My question is where one starts calling it a canoe gun.
I’m thinking the term goes to s historically long gun that’s been cut off to two feet or less. As smoothies with 30 inch barrels are known... but were not canoe guns
:idunno:
 
Historically the very short barreled smooth bores would have been thought of as blanket guns to be hidden under a blanket for defense or a surprise assault.

The canoe gun is a modern term for a short barreled gun that might have been used in a canoe. It's a modern term popularized in "Muzzleloader Magazine" by Mike Nesbit and his TVM canoe guns about 15 to 20 years ago. These were purpose built to be that short.

If you have a canoe gun, enjoy it and use it.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top