Gun builders for flintlock pistols

I'm in search of gun builders with experience and willingness to build a flintlock pistol, whether custom or one with parts from Rifle Shoppe.

I really haven't been impressed with those from India and would rather have something of higher quality and period correctness, if possible.

I'm kind of a pistol junkie and as of right now, I haven't settled on what pistol I would like to have built first, but my interests lie more in the European military and dueling style flintlocks (British, French, Spanish primarily though I also like the Prussian/Dutch).

In any case, I'm in the market for recommendations as it seems builders who build these aside from the mass produced ones are somewhat hard to find and I have neither the skill nor the inclination to try to get the parts from the Rifle Shoppe and do it myself.

Thank you in advance for any recommendations.

there are not many folks who have r studied horse pistols of the 1700's and 1800's. At one time I had a few horse pistols from the early 1800's from England, Germany and America. The Harper's ferry and the 1855 Springfield are the only two that I am aware of as actual firing repros that have been made for a few decades now. The Indians seem to be the only ones building "knock offs" of horse pistols in any variety. What I find interesting is that European percussion horse pistols sometimes came equipped with safety mechanisms. The 1840's Hanoverian cavalry pistols had patent breeches with cross bolt safeties that prevented firing until the safety was pushed off. Amazing tech for it's time.

No the research is limited, I agree.

Everything would have to be based off of the limited writings and extant pistols from the period.

Rifle Shoppe I know is noted for having good quality parts, even if it is pricey and can come with a waiting period.

I haven't got far enough in my own personal research to be able to critique their goods, though. But I'm working on it.

First of all, WELCOME to the forum.

Please don't take this as criticism, but your parameters include many kinds of pistols such as:

1. Cavalry/Horse/Dragoon Pistols
2. Sea Service Pistols
3. Officers' Pistols that may or may not have been dueling pistols OR an Officer may have had both.
4. Civilian Georgian Type Pistols
5. Screw Barrel Pistols
6. Civilian "Kentucky" or American pistols that could have gone from very plain to rather elegant.

I have owned and fired the .69 cal. Navy Arms "Charleville" Pistol that is somewhat of a copy of the French Pistol that North and Cheney also made copies of in the period and is linked below. Even though it is a smoothbore, it was surprisingly accurate at 25 yards BUT even with my LARGE hands, I usually had to fire it with a two hand hold as the grip/stock is so huge.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_438600

I also have a Navy Arms copy of a P 1742 British Dragoon Pistol and though I love the banana shaped lock, like may period military arms - the grip is WAY too straight for good shooting.

For much of the 18th century, "Georgian Style" pistols had much better fitting grip/stocks and were made all over the Continent and in Britain. Though I know you said you didn't want to build a kit, below is a kit to build such a pistol. The grip on this kit can be curved a bit more to better fit some hands, btw. I have not built or had a pistol built from this kit, but I know a few folks who have and were pleased with it. http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/pistols/englishgeorgian.html

Blackley and Son offers some pistol kits you may be interested in and those parts are generally very good parts. You can scroll down to see them here: https://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Pistol_Kits.html

Jim Chambers offers a VERY NICE American Pistol Kit, BUT the 13" long barrel is WAY too long for my personal taste. However, it gives you an idea of what I mean by a "Kentucky or American" Pistol.
The grip fits well in the hand. http://www.flintlocks.com/pistols.htm

BTW, though this is a general guide and of course there were some exceptions, Georgian Pistols were generally smoothbore while American Pistols were both smoothbore and rifled.

Gus

You can contact these guys and see what they will build you.
http://cabincreek.net/revspecs/colonial-american-pistol/
http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com/tennessee-pistol

IMO, any pistol built by a custom builder is going to be expensive.

Having built several, I can say there is almost as much work in making a pistol as there is in making a rifle.
The only real difference is the amount of the surface area that needs to be shaped, sanded and finished.

Hi,
Just keep in mind that true dueling pistols, civilian horse and traveling pistols, and military pistols are very different things. Below are modern made but true English dueling pistols. There are not many makers on this side of the pond that understand the designs and details of British and European guns and very few who have done correct dueling pistols. Brad Emig at Cabin Creek is certainly one. Jerry Huddleston really knows French firearms but his are high art and expensive. Ron Scott also understands European guns particularly Germanic. Mike Brooks would do well making Dutch, German, and British military pistols from the 18th century. Eric von Aschwege also can do good European work. He is the apprentice gunsmith at Colonial Williamsburg. Ed Wenger is another good choice. Another fine maker who just completed a fabulous early 18th century English horse pistol is Gregg Berg. Those are folks who know their stuff and understand the details.

dave

And yourself, Dave. Don't forget yourself.

(Those pistols are his work)

Thanks Elnathan,
I am just not looking for more work right now. I have as much as I can handle and there are a few things I would like to do for myself.

dave

Ask mike markey. He is a member here and I have handled and shot a flintlock pistol he made. Plus makes excellent, high quality rifles in flint.

Thank you for all the responses and recommendations!

To respond to some of the common themes of the responses thus far:

Thanks for the welcome! I've actually been on here for 2 years. I just don't post a lot. So usually when I do its when I've pretty much exhausted my own resources.

I realize that there were many variations in 18th century European pistols and my initial post was purposefully kept broad in order to maximize options. To clarify, I would be interested in dragoon pistols and/or belt/dueling pistols. For belt/dueling, I'm open to civilian or military style and I'm interested in those dated more to the early to mid-18th century than later. So Georgian might be too late for me.

French and Spanish are my focus, although I would love a British Heavy Dragoon pistol just for the hell of it. Prussian/Dutch pistols I've seen are also attractive. So since I haven't had much luck finding makers on my own I kept it vague so I could be open to any and all. Haha!

And I realize a custom pistol will be expensive. Which is why I would be open to semi-custom as well. I have looked at the Muzzleloader Builder Supply pistol kit and do like it. Still not sure I'm confident even with that. My hands-on skill is absolutely dreadful! But I'm open to it possibly. At the end of the day I just want the most historically accurate and reliable arm I can afford.

I actually have 2 long rifles from TVM. But their pistols seem to be more of an American style, as are many of the custom pistol makers I've found, so I figured they wouldn't be what I was looking for.

I will definitely check out some of the makers listed here, though. Shame you're not looking for work Dave. Those pistols are beautiful!

Much obliged for the recommendations and advice!

Hi BMS,
Thanks for the comments and if you were able to compare my pistols to originals you would see that they are very close. There are quite a few folks who can build you a good pistol but the subset of makers who understand European styling and quality are fewer. I mentioned Gregg Berg because I think he might be a good choice for your objectives. I've given him the heads up so you may hear from him. I love to build these kinds of pistols and guns, I have a lot of experience, and I know the details very well, but I have a lot of orders right now. I would be happy to help you but please investigate the others I mentioned who may be able to help in a timely manner. I just cannot add more work for at least another year.

dave

Those are lovely. Styled after Robert Wogdon's work, if I'm not mistaken. I didn't know anyone in the U.S. was doing anything of the sort.

Back to the OP...I'd seriously consider looking at the high-end Pedersoli pistols. Their LePage flintlock has an outstanding competitive reputation. And a hooked breech...which is a Godsend for cleaning.

Also, a belt pistol is not a dueller. A proper duelling pistol was often of smaller caliber, and always of much higher quality. Originals will comfortably shoot a 3-inch group at 25 meters. It's the difference between a factory-stock Glock and a full-house-tuned bullseye 1911.

Dave, I completely understand if you have too many orders. Thank you for taking the time to help me with this. It is most appreciated. Would you happen to have any recommendations on books or source material that focuses on this topic? All I have are a multitude of different books that happen to have pistols but the information is so much more limited than finding books on long rifles, fowlers, or varying military arms.

Mike, I have looked at the Pedersoli LePage and I'm sure it is good quality and I have only heard good things from Pedersoli. I'm just not wild about that particular pistol aesthetically. Its also a little late for the time period I'm wanting it to fit in.

I only included dueling/belt in the same sentence to denote non-dragoon pistols.

Thanks again!

Hi,
Sure. Norman Dixon's "Georgian Pistols", John Atkinson's "The British Dueling Pistol", DeWitt Bailey's "Small Arms of the British Forces in America", John Burgoyne's "The Queen Anne Pistol", Arne Hoff's "Dutch Firearms", Tarassuk's "Antique Firearms in the Hermitage Museum", and J. F. Hayward's "Art of the Gunmaker Vol 2". Also, if you can find and afford them, any of Keith Neal and David Backs's books on great British gunmakers, and Spanish firearms.

dave

Based on a fading recollection I understand that dueling pistols were never rifled.

I also understand that one of the pustules used in theBurr / Hamilton duel had a hair trigger..

The idea being that the pistol would fire before the user had really had tim e to properly aim.I believe the gins belonged to Burr.

All the above based on dubious memory.

Dutch Schoultz

Hi Dutch,
The British generally looked down upon dueling pistols being rifled but there was no rule or restriction, after all dueling was illegal. However, quite a few dueling pistols by some of the best British makers had shallow rifling that was referred to as "scratch" rifling. As long as both pistols used in a duel were equal, it was not an issue. In Europe, rifled pistols for duels were common. The pistols used in the Hamilton-Burr duel were made by Robert Wogdon of London. The pistols I show above are inspired by him. His and most other high-end dueling pistols had single set triggers they referred to as "hair" triggers. Both of the pistols in the Hamilton duel had hair triggers. On some original pistols you will see a small set screw by the triggers for adjusting the set. On many, there was no screw adjustment and the set quality was adjusted permanently by the gunmaker. There is a persistent myth that floats around the internet that dueling pistols did not have front and rear sights. Anyone who has handled original British or European dueling pistols or seen closeup photos of them knows that myth is false.

dave

Donald, you are a wizard.

I think the Burr / Hamilton meh stemmed from the unpopularity of AAron Burr and folks wanted to calljim unfair..
In the Missisippi River,a bit upstream from the city proper is, or was ana piece of land called Blood Island, or something similar where law evading folks would go , by boat, to carry out their illegal dueling in the early 1800.;s. I think the practice had died out by the adbentof thievery uncivil Ciil War.

Those were the days. A person had to wath what he aid or it would be Off to the Island..

Dutch

Sorry Dave,

My old eyes saw your name as Donald Peterson.
But under either name you remain a Wizard on the subject of dueling pistols.
Dome clown would take offense at something you said and would challenge you to a duel. You had the awkward choice of meeting him for the duel or being called a coward..


Dutch

No worries , Dutch.

dave