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Login Name Post: Colt Colt (?) Dragoon        (Topic#306230)
RedFeather 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1256
01-12-18 07:03 PM - Post#1663054    


Was in a small shop and saw a Dragoon (rounded guard) on consignment. Looked well cared for but, when I chedcked it for maker, it only had a s/n on the frame with matching last digits on butt strap, etc. I think it was just marked Colt. A clerk said it was one of a batch outsourced for Colt. He though in the Carolinas. Any idea what it is? One of those early repros made in NY or by Iver Johnson from Uberti parts? I had not considered one but the gun appears well finished, although used, and they are asking $200. No enabling, now. I have friends for that. 😀

 
hadden west 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2187
hadden west
01-13-18 09:11 AM - Post#1663114    

    In response to RedFeather

Hard to say, without a picture. 2nd. Gen Colts and Signature Colts, if in nice condition, would sell for way more than that.

Sometimes the maker's name is under the ramrod.
If made in Italy, Spain and etc. there should be some proof markings

ASM made some repos's that look very close to 2nd. Gen. Colts. May have used some Colt parts.

Uberti, should be well marked.

 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 13546
Rifleman1776
01-13-18 09:30 AM - Post#1663122    

    In response to RedFeather

Colt did make and marketed repros (use of that word is debatable) of it's early C&B revolvers. This was in the mid-1970s. I had several of their Navy models. Very nice pistols. Stories varied as to where they were made. But, according to the early Colt press releases, these were made exactly as the originals were with only a couple design exceptions to distinguish them from originals. There are several good books about the history of Colt revolvers. If you can locate one of those your questions may be answered.

 
hawkeye2 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2182
01-13-18 09:53 AM - Post#1663129    

    In response to RedFeather

For $200 I would just buy it and sort out who and when after you get home. Take some green foldy stuff and walk out with it for $175 (or tell me where it is ).

 
Ray-Vigo 
40 Cal.
Posts: 470
Ray-Vigo
01-13-18 12:40 PM - Post#1663157    

    In response to hawkeye2

That's how I would do it as well, assuming you can examine it and it looks reasonably well-made (not obviously junk). I'd buy it and then investigate more. Even if it's not a Colt, if it shoots well and is halfway well-made, $200 is not bad at all for a Dragoon type. It's a good deal if it's a working and complete, USA-made model. The values on the USA-made reproduction Colts (wherever they were made) are going up more each year.

Edited by Ray-Vigo on 01-13-18 12:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
RedFeather 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1256
01-13-18 08:40 PM - Post#1663221    

    In response to Ray-Vigo

Looked quite clean. Hard to see the bore. I had to slip an led borelight down it. (Was there to look at a bolt action). I mentioned it seemed pretty much unused but a clerk said the owner had changed the nipples and the gun was "a mess", so he cleaned it. If it was, I want that clerk cleaning my guns. I will look under the loading lever. I googled Colt repros and saw that mentioned. If the shop is open Monday, I will drop by. Thanks, all.

 
RedFeather 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1256
01-16-18 05:55 PM - Post#1663859    

    In response to RedFeather

Had a brief chance to inspect it today. Only markings are Colts Patent on the left frame above the guard, and Samuel Colt, New York on top of the barrel. S/n's on barrel, frame, grip and cylinder, 38xxx, no letters. Import and proofs are absent.

I'm not familiar with Colts but whatt are the small pins on the rear of the cylinder for, between the nipple recesses?

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 25822
Zonie
01-16-18 06:24 PM - Post#1663866    

    In response to RedFeather

The small pins are on the rear of the cylinder to hold the cylinder in a "safe" position.

The nose of the hammer has a slot in its face and that slot fits over the pins.

This was Colts way of pleasing the Army who insisted that any revolver they bought must have some sort of safety.

When Remington made their Army revolver, they cut slots that the nose of the hammer could fit into in the rear of the cylinder.

If you haven't bought it yet and if the action works like it should, if you can afford it, by all means, buy it.

The lack of markings other than "Samuel Colt, New York" is interesting.
It makes me wonder if someone tried to make a forgery?

A real 3rd model Dragoon would have the following marked on the barrel:

"ADDRESS SAM COLT-NEW YORK CITY"

Colt only made about 10,500 3rd model Dragoons with the serial numbers starting with 10200.

That would make the final guns with serial numbers in the 20,700 range. (Flayderman's Guide says the highest serial number was around 19600).

The newly made 1971-1982 Colt pistols 3rd model Dragoon serial numbers started with 20909 and ran up to 34500.
I don't have the serial numbers for the Colt Signature series that followed the new Colts but they would have been higher than 34500.

In 2003, a Colt Signature 3rd model Dragoon in 95% condition would have been worth $350.
Just Jim...



 
RedFeather 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1256
01-16-18 06:38 PM - Post#1663870    

    In response to Zonie

I think the top of the barrel has the full inscription. Was going by faulty memory. The clerk repeated that the owner said it was one done under authority from Colt, so might be 2nd generation.

I have not handled one before and it did not feel like a great honking monster, as I've read some gun mag ex-spurts describe these. In fact, it balanced pretty nicely. Better than my 7 1/2" RedHawk.

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 25822
Zonie
01-16-18 06:47 PM - Post#1663872    

    In response to RedFeather

While not as massive as the Colt Walker, my reproduction 3rd Model Dragoon weighs 4 pounds, 1 ounce, unloaded.

I don't think I would want to carry it on my hip in a holster but like you say, it does have good balance.
Just Jim...



 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 13546
Rifleman1776
01-17-18 09:54 AM - Post#1664006    

    In response to RedFeather

  • Quote:
The clerk repeated that the owner said it was one done under authority from Colt,



That might be accurate. Or made to specs dictated by Colt. There is a book describing these 2nd gen ration revolvers. On the tv show Pawn Shop, one of their 'experts' brought in a book with full scale photos of originals and the 2nd gens to compare. The 2nd gens are nice pistols but built (deliberately) with a couple distinguishing features such as shape of the trigger guard, etc. BTW, the one on the show was a 2nd gen. much to the disappointment of the seller.

 
RedFeather 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1256
01-17-18 11:05 AM - Post#1664025    

    In response to Rifleman1776

Yes, they change the screws, etc. I read where Val Forgett sent a sample Colt to Belgium when he decided to have them reproduced and it came back an exact copy, including a dented trigger guard. He immediately realized what that might lead to, so incorporated changes. Still, Turner Kirkland admitted to getting burned by a fake.

We're the original guns as pretty as these "new" issues? Not the fancy commemorative Signature series but the regular models. Sure is a handsome piece.

 
RedFeather 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1256
01-18-18 06:05 PM - Post#1664388    

    In response to RedFeather

Well, lacking all and any common sense, I went ahead and bought it. Will get pics up once I remember where I put my Imgur info. S/N 30xxx puts it in the second generation series. Shop actually made me do a transfer since they had the S/N in their records database. Looks to be in very good condition. Will check out the bore better once I figure how to pull the wedge. Yeah, Colt ignorant.

Zonie, you are right. It is no light weight. But weight is good in a horse pistol like this.

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 25822
Zonie
01-19-18 04:01 PM - Post#1664650    

    In response to RedFeather

To get it field stripped, use something soft like a plastic or wood screw driver handle to tap the wedge out so it disengages with the cylinder arbor.
The wedge doesn't have to come all the way out but it must move far enough to totally disengage with the slot thru the arbor.

Set the hammer to half cock and rotate the cylinder a bit so the web between two chambers lines up with the loading ram.

Push down on the loading lever and the ram will jack the barrel off of the gun.
Just Jim...



 
RedFeather 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1256
01-19-18 07:58 PM - Post#1664690    

    In response to Zonie

Thanks for the tips. That is next on my to do list.

 
jamieorr 
40 Cal.
Posts: 230
01-19-18 09:10 PM - Post#1664713    

    In response to RedFeather

I have the same revolver, there's a spring clip on the wedge that has to be pressed down to start the wedge. I use the edge of a key usually. Then pull the wedge out as far as it will go, it doesn't come all the way, probably due to the spring, but doesn't have to to get the barrel off.

Jamie

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 25822
Zonie
01-20-18 04:37 PM - Post#1664878    

    In response to jamieorr

The end of the spring on the wedge may or may not protrude from the side of the barrel when the wedge is correctly installed.
It depends on the tolerances each gun is built to.

The small lip on the spring is designed to catch on the screw head when the wedge is withdrawn so that it won't fall out and get lost. If someone wants to remove the wedge, all they have to do is to remove the screw.
Just Jim...



 
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