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Login Name Post: Loading question        (Topic#305640)
hanshi 
Cannon
Posts: 8427
12-16-17 01:40 PM - Post#1657286    

    In response to tenngun

I once put a few grains of BP on a hard surface and pounded it with a hammer. Other than turning the BP into dust, there was no reaction. A spark, however, doesn't even have to be large enough to be visible in order to set the stuff off.

 
Okie Hog 
40 Cal.
Posts: 371
12-16-17 02:07 PM - Post#1657291    

    In response to azmntman

  • Quote:
What does it achieve?



Better accuracy with my favorite powder Black MZ.

 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 14421
Rifleman1776
12-16-17 02:13 PM - Post#1657292    

    In response to tenngun

  • Quote:
And rapid compression can provide the heat.



Yes. And there is a form of primitive fire starter that uses compression to ignite tinder. Forget what it is called. About the size of a duck call. I agree the bounce thing is probably not risky. But, then, never say never.

 
Black Hand 
Cannon
Posts: 7336
Black Hand
12-16-17 02:34 PM - Post#1657297    

    In response to Rifleman1776

  • Rifleman1776 Said:
  • Black Hand Said:
  • Quote:
...bouncing a loading rod...deforms the ball and unevenly compresses the powder.


I have heard this many times, but does anyone have evidence to support these statements...?





You can answer that question by catching a ball in yer hand at the muzzle as you shoot it out. Doing that should also answer the never ending argument about whether obduration happens.
(and for those unfortunate few born with less brains than a sparrow, the above is irony, a joke. Don't do it!)


All straw-man aside, you really didn't answer the question.

Obturation occurs as combination of bore diameter, ball diameter and patch thickness (I'm certain lube has a part to play as well). My questions were about the claims that the ball is DEFORMED to any great degree by bouncing the rod, whether or not powder is crushed/compressed to any significant degree and how much (if any) effect it has on ignition.

  • Rifleman1776 Said:
  • Quote:
And rapid compression can provide the heat.



Yes. And there is a form of primitive fire starter that uses compression to ignite tinder. Forget what it is called. About the size of a duck call. I agree the bounce thing is probably not risky. But, then, never say never.


BTW - it's called a Fire Piston and functions on the principle that rapid compression of air creates heat. I'm certain you'd never be able to compress air inside a muzzleloader sufficiently by bouncing a rod to ignite anything...

You can say NEVER to numerous situations - a couple examples:
Steel is NEVER molten when held at room temperature.
Water NEVER freezes at +200F.
A gasoline engine NEVER runs on water.
You should NEVER underestimate human ignorance.
And the list goes on.

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7575
tenngun
12-17-17 01:28 PM - Post#1657418    

    In response to Black Hand

Well you would not have to catch the ball. You could get a piece of pvc pipe about your bore diameter. Mich a ball. Set the pipe on the floor, throw on a load of dry hot cereal, ram a patched ball home, then hammer away with a thrown ram rod. I just do a drop bounce from a few inches above, but don’t get whimpy here. Do your best Achillies imitation hurling that rod down with Hector killing force. Repeat. Pick up off floor and gently push ball out. Re mich.
I got to say that lead is soft, but it’s resting on a bed of powder, supported by a compressed patch and steel walls. I just don’t think you can muster the force with human arms at the angles we load at In our longest barreled arms to develop the energy to flatten that ball.
You might be able to mar it but you already have been taping it down the bore. You may have exposed it to a short started. So you already took a chance mating the end.

Edited by tenngun on 12-17-17 01:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Colorado Clyde 
Cannon
Posts: 14352
Colorado Clyde
12-17-17 07:22 PM - Post#1657464    

    In response to Okie Hog

  • Okie Hog Said:
  • Quote:
What does it achieve?



Better accuracy with my favorite powder Black MZ.



Now there's a valid answer....


 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4895
12-17-17 09:03 PM - Post#1657474    

    In response to M.D.

An old muzzle loader friend of mine was telling me that years ago someone came up with a devise for actually making ram rod bouncing uniform. I think he called it a "Kadoodle" or something like that.

 
Colorado Clyde 
Cannon
Posts: 14352
Colorado Clyde
12-17-17 09:17 PM - Post#1657481    

    In response to M.D.

Actually that was for seating pressure...For those who push.....Not for bouncing. It has been recreated....both versions have been proven to be useless....like magic crystals, copper bracelets, and canned air.


 
Wes/Tex 
Cannon
Posts: 7787
Wes/Tex
12-18-17 12:15 AM - Post#1657495    

    In response to Colorado Clyde

Hey!

https://www.trashtalktv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/perri...



 
Tinker2 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1943
12-18-17 02:16 PM - Post#1657545    

    In response to Rifleman1776

  • Rifleman1776 Said:
I agree the bounce thing is probably not risky. But, then, never say never.



Ok, I wanted someone else to say this but, I had a friend that did that bouncing of the ramrod.
I think he enjoyed that more than shooting. Liked to see how high out of the barrel it could go.
He might bounce the ramrod maybe 10 times when loading, he liked it.

We were at the loading benches behind the firing line; caps were at the firing line.
The gun fired the ramrod through the brim of his hat. Why or how I don’t know.
He doesn’t bounce his ramrod any more but does wear the same hat.



William Alexander


 
TXFlynHog 
40 Cal.
Posts: 162
TXFlynHog
12-20-17 12:33 PM - Post#1657837    

    In response to tenngun

  • tenngun Said:
...Howsomeever if you can provide enough compression to heat bp to ignition point by the force of throwing the rod down the bore you don’t need the gun. You can go to Alaska find a brown bear and rip it’s leg off and use that as s club to beat a moose to death with.



you mean like this?

 
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6679
Loyalist Dave
01-30-18 07:45 AM - Post#1666603    

    In response to Okie Hog

  • Quote:
i whang the aluminum ramrod hard one time. Works very well for me.



I wonder then how those folks achieved such great accuracy, when using a wooden ramrod without in many cases even a metal, reinforced tip? Surely the folks that lived and died by the flintlock long rifle didn't whang their round balls into submission atop their powder charges with bare wooden ramrods, or at least not for very long?.

LD

 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 14421
Rifleman1776
01-30-18 09:20 AM - Post#1666624    

    In response to tenngun

  • Quote:
You might be able to mar it but you already have been taping it down the bore. You may have exposed it to a short started. So you already took a chance mating the end.




We may load a "round" ball but wat comes out the muzzle is anything but round. Pics in the Lyman bp manual show that. Plus, as you said, we mess them up some with loading.

 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 14421
Rifleman1776
01-30-18 09:24 AM - Post#1666627    

    In response to Tinker2

  • Quote:
We were at the loading benches behind the firing line; caps were at the firing line.
The gun fired the ramrod through the brim of his hat. Why or how I don’t know.



Long story short: I once witnessed a delayed discharge (apx. 10 min.), presumably, because of a smoldering ember left in the barrel from the previous shot. It can happen. Go ahead, ask me again why I swab between every shot......

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 7575
tenngun
01-30-18 11:14 AM - Post#1666641    

    In response to Rifleman1776

Absent RedCoats, Red skins, and Blue Bellies(or Johnny Rebs) we never have to load fast. SWAB YOUR BORE Between shots. You have a lot less chance of maring your ball if you don’t have to go down a dirty gun. Yes I’ve speed loaded, yes I’ve been in timed matches. But, there is no practical reason to do so.

 
SgtMaj 
40 Cal.
Posts: 376
SgtMaj
01-30-18 06:31 PM - Post#1666727    

    In response to tenngun

I agree, I always swab between shots. I want consistency with every shot, not trying to see how many PRBs I can force down a fouled barrel. I want to eliminate one of the variables than can alter a shot on target.

 
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