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Wanted: Pictures of Italian Wheellocks

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Canute Rex

40 Cal.
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I just bought a wheellock lock made by the renowned Bolek (AKA Razpla, AKA Boleslaw Maciacizcic (sp?)). It is an Italian design, a copy of the one in the so-called John Alden gun.

I'm not such a fan of the Alden gun design. I'm looking for other examples of Italian made wheellock rifles. I have found a few, but I'm wondering what the followers of the pre-flintlock forum might come up with.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Congratulations. I'm sure it's a fine lock. You might first decide if you want a fancier sporting piece, or a plain military style. Just a thought.

Rick
 
Canute said:
I just bought a wheellock lock made by the renowned Bolek (AKA Razpla, AKA Boleslaw Maciacizcic (sp?)). It is an Italian design, a copy of the one in the so-called John Alden gun.

I'm not such a fan of the Alden gun design. I'm looking for other examples of Italian made wheellock rifles. I have found a few, but I'm wondering what the followers of the pre-flintlock forum might come up with.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I'm jealous, don't even want to think about what one of his guns would set me back lol.

Hopefully one day.
 
Rick, I'm having a hard time finding photos of Italian wheellock rifles of any kind, sporting or military. Lots of pistols. Lots of German and French long guns.

What I've noticed is that the Italian wheellocks have a diamond shaped lock plate. The French tend towards the shape of a comma turned on its side, like a back action lock. The German locks are more rectangular, with an offset or step in the middle.

I have seen photos of the John Alden gun with its semi-club butt, but no other Italian wheellock guns like it. I have found photos of two other designs, both with a "nose" curved comb. But that's it.
 
I have the plans for an Italian wheelie. However,
I can't post them because I canceled my photobucket
account as I heard they were staring to charge and
there were better outfits available...IE 'imgbb.com
so if you can think of a way to receive these plans
I will be glad to send them. I did make the lock
myself and it worked well.
 
Bill, I am as sure as I can be that I have your lock. I will give it a good home.
 
OK. So it's going to be a long gun. Let me contact a guy I know and see what he has. Are you thinking along the lines of a sporting piece? Or a military piece? And what time frame ?

Rick
 
Hi Canute.
Here is what a collector friend of mine sent me along with his comments.......

Hi, Rick
Maybe these might be helpful. You're right, there are FAR more Brescian pistols than long guns around. These examples should give him an idea of what would stylistically match a wheellock.
The color pic is of a piece I personally examined in the arms room of the Artillery Museum in Turin. Very odd piece, the lock with external spring looks very Silesian, and the sliding patchbox is unusual for southern Europe (barrel is rifled, too, which is also an oddity for the area.

On the more conventional examples, your buddy should remember that the polygonal butts were never as club-like as on Ottoman guns. They actually taper in thickness from the lock to the buttplate, as they flare outward in the vertical plane. Thus, my example is, at the extremity, 4 1/2 in. from heel to toe, and it's only 1 in. side-to-side.

Note the bottom-most piece on the page of line drawings, a schavezzo (folding stock gun). Does the butt area look familiar?

For shooting comfort I would prefer the polygonal style over the Arab-looking recurve of the Turin museum gun. They are actually quite ergonomic, I have no problem getting a firm hold and good sight picture with mine.

Also, your friend should keep in mind that Brescian fashion called for pin-fastening, not barrel bands. The iron buttplate actually forms a narrow rim around the extremity of the butt. And all the fittings are iron, during the wheellock era these guys had no use for brass (some Beretta-marked fowlers of the 18th cent. have brass trim but these have patilla locks and Madrid style fluted butts)..


 
The external main spring locks are interesting. It leaves very little on the other side of the plate, so maybe the whole pistol will be thinner? On the other side, it will be exposed to dust, dirt, and damage out there.
 
Wow, Ricky, that is a wheellock gold mine. Thanks so much. There is a definite Brescian buttstock style. This gives me good material to work with.

The lock is probably from the early part of the 17th century, so that's the time period that interests me.
 
Hi Canute.

Well good. Glad to be of some help. Yes, I thought the detail drawings of the butt stocks would be especially helpful.
Congratulations on owning this lock. Post a couple of pics of the lock if you get a chance.

Rick :hatsoff:
 
Ricky,

The North Italian lock with the external main spring- Do you think it had a pan which slid open on firing or did it swing open manually like matchlock? If it opens automatically it would appear a great complication needing a second eccentric on the inside of the plate? Neat stuff
 
Hi Doyle.
Hmmm. Good question. I'm out of town at the moment, but I'll check my original lock when I return home this weekend. Can't recall at the moment. My shooting wheel lock, like a Snaphaunce, is manually closed, and automatically opens on firing. I'll ask my collector friend also. Stay tuned.
Rick
 
Great I'll look forward to what ever you can offer.
I went to the library tonight and found an external spring lock which uses one spring for the wheel and for the dog. Very compact. Same lock shows up in two two works, One attributes it to Spain XVI and the other to Portugal. Does not use those pesky to make links but instead uses a simple push rod to spin the wheel adn to open the pan. Tho I do not completely understand how. One thing for sure there are spots on that lock that you would regret having your finger around when it cycled!

The Armour Court Of The Royal Ontario Museum. pp19.

and in

Jackson, H.J. European Hand Firearms of the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries Holland press


bad sketch but better then my memory
66gqie.jpg
[/img]
 
Hi Doyle

Back in town now. I checked my lock as posted above. It is a manual close and automatic open. This is the same as all others I've seen, regardless of origin. There is a piece attached to the shaft/arbor that rotates about a quarter turn as the wheel spins to push the pan cover open. Can't get a good pic of it without lock disassembly. But it is very similar to all others I've seen.
In fact, the Indian made replica also operates this way.

Rick
 
I'm a little late to this party but ........

If you like, I have photos I took in Venice Italy 2 or 3 years back of a museum there. There are probably dozens of wheelocks in those photos. If you like, I can post them.

Darryl
 
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