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English 73" Wildfowler

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Dave Wallis

36 Cal.
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
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I have recently purchased this particularly long Wildfowling piece and would dearly like to hear your learned opinions of it!
It has a 57" 10 bore Barrel with an overall length of 73". It looks to be late 18th century in design, but percussion. The foresight is silver and the engraving is really quite fine.
The photos are the vendors.





 
Hi David,
Very nice. I checked my references and 2 Branders, William and his son Martin pop up. Both worked in the Minories. For those unfamiliar, the Minories were the industrial workshops located near and often associated with the Tower of London. The styling of the gun strongly suggests to me a date between 1760 and 1785 or so. I like the take down two piece stock, which in my experience often means the gun had a traveling case. Since Martin was born in 1760, I suspect the maker is William. I am sure it was built for taking geese and ducks on the water. During conversion to percussion, it looks like the gunsmith added a patent breech. Assuming the lock plate is original, the conversion was superbly done. Thanks for sharing Dave.

dave
 
Nice, and not the usual gun we see!

Thank you, too, Dave, for your expertise. I wondered why the brass "spacer" in the forestock - now I know.

:eek:ff
Very interesting, too, are the three Uzi's at the edge. Real? Your's? Just curious, they are iconic.

Richard/Grumpa
 
Many thanks for your kind words of wisdom, gents. As for the UZIs, the photos are the vendors and he's selling some of these, deactivated to current E.U spec.
I have to repair/get repaired the 2 lugs under the barrel, into which the stock/foregrip pins locate, as they have become detached, other than that, all is good.
 
Hi David,
It appears that one of the proof marks on the barrel is missing, probably cut off when the percussion patent breech was installed. The mark closest to the breech appears to be the makers mark and it looks like a star above 2 letters. Martin Branders mark was a star above M and B. His father William's mark was different. I wish the photos were clearer but I think there is a neat comparison with respect to the engraving on the forward part of the lock (where the frizzen spring would be) and hammer versus the other hardware. The engraving on the brass looks right out of the 18th century and perhaps very early 19th. The style of the engraving on the lock, with all the fine scroll work is typical of British guns later in the percussion era. I suspect the conversion to percussion took place sometime after 1830.

dave
 
Hi David.
I concur with Dave Person's comments on this duck gun.
I will go a step more in my dating opinion and take it to the 1775-85 time frame. I base this on the trigger guard and lock style in correlation with the level of tang carving.
My opinion on the lock engraving..... it is all original except for the engraving where the frizzen spring would be, maybe the serifs around the name and of course the percussion hammer. Remove all of that and it looks like it came out of a shop used by many London builders of the period including Joseph Heylin.
Very nice piece. I am envious : )
Pm on
 
Also... any chance of seeing the trigger guard, butt plate and entry thimble engraving?
 
Dodgydave said:
The gun weighs 11 1/2lbs.
Someone wondered whether this might be a sort of punt gun. I believe it might represent a waterfowl gun, alright, but of the type to be fired from the shoulder. They did that back in the day.

In 1789 Wm. Cleator wrote in An Essay on Shooting:

"The circumstance of a duck-gun killing at a greater distance than a fowling piece is not owing to its length, but to its greater weight and thickness allowing the charge to be doubled, trebled, or even quadrupled; which cannot be done in a fowling piece, though strongly reinforced. For a barrel of five or six feet, such as that of a common duck gun, weighing five or six pounds, and the whole piece twelve or thirteen pounds; may be fired with a very large charge, without recoiling so much as to hurt the shooter, its weight being sufficient to resist the violent impulse occasioned by the increase of the powder."

And they were available early on:

THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE
October 20, 1738
GENTLEMEN and Others, may be supply'd by the Subscriber in Williamsburg, with neat Fowling-Pieces, and large Guns fit for killing Wild-Fowl in Rivers, at a reasonable Rate. He also makes several Sorts of wrought Brass-work, and casts small Bells, James Geddy

And they were long:

THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE
October 5, 1739
"About Six Months since, a long Gun , about 6 or 7 Feet in the Barrel, was brought by a young Gentleman of Glocester County, to me, the Subscriber, in Williamsburg, to be new Stock'd and Lock'd; and as I have some Reason to believe, that the Person who brought it is dead, and am desirous the right Owner should have it, I therefore give this Notice, that the Person who has a Right to it, may know where it is, and that he may have it, on proving his Property, and paying the Charges, to me, James Geddy."

Beautiful gun and excellent photos.

Spence
 
Hi David,
Nice photos and you have a wonderful gun there. I think the maker's stamp is for William Branders with the B poorly stamped. That dates the gun between 1765-1787, probably the latter part of that period. The lock is wonderful. You can see the faint outline of nick and dot border that went under the pan and a faint outline for the frizzen screw. The engraving on the hammer and front of the lock plate is clearly of a different style, one that is much later than when the gun was made. The conversion was superbly done. These long waterfowlers, or as Keith Neal called them "duck guns", were shoulder fired and meant to kill birds on the water. Neal has descriptions of several in his book "Great British Gunmakers" by John Twigg that are very similar to this gun. With your permission, David, I would like to download the photos showing the engraving on the buttplate and trigger guard. I would like to include them in my file of engraving designs on British guns.

dave
 
Yet again, I'm humbled by the combined knowledge of this forum; outstanding. Thank you all.
Yes Dave, you have my full permission to reproduce the photographs as you so wish.
 
Thanks for sharing the extra pictures. The weight and size make this a standard classic shoulder fired waterfowling piece. Super nice. The trigger guard strengthens my opinion of the dates I previously gave for this wonderful piece, especially in conjunction with the entry thimble and carving.

Oh, they were called duck guns in the early period as well. I have some early writings ..... wait.... Spence just posted one reference above ;)
 
Hi David,
Capt Jas (James) and I are serious students and builders of 18th century British sporting guns. The photos below attest to my commitment to that art form. We would appreciate any photos or information on British guns that you may have or encounter. Please keep in touch.

dave
Silver%20English%20Rifle%207_zpsbirmpsvs.jpg
Silver%20English%20Rifle%208_zpsm4puu2xw.jpg
 
Ditto to Mr. Person's last post.
I however follow way behind in his footsteps on actual execution.




 
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