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Quite a while back there was a discussion on a buffalo gun, maybe it was a flinter, perhaps rifled perhaps not. Seems that it had adjustable sights of a sort. About .7 bore.
That was the only one I remember seeing posted on the forum.
Was it an anomaly, a rarity among the arms that survived to today?
 
Sounds interesting. Was it an antique? Does .7 bore mean 7 gauge or .70 caliber? Either way, that's an awfully big gun for buffalo. I'm assuming American Bison here. Cape buffalo....well that's a whole other story perhaps. Goodness, I'd think that a 20 ga (.62 cal.) smooth bore would be plenty to put buffalo on the menu.
 
Many eastern rifles were less then .50 and dropped a few woods buffalo. Early western rifles were mostly .50 later going to .54. I have a photo of a late plains rifle with a 26 inch barrel and .75
Are cape buff bigger then bison? I've seen them in zoos but couldn't tell you what they weighed. Carlin painted buff near as tall as horse and rider, artistic liscance?
 
I've hunted both, and will offer the opinion that in general...Cape Buffalo are larger than American Bison.
That impression might be influenced by the fact that Bison are typically shot in open areas, from a little distance. My Cape Buffalo were all shot in thick cover/tall grass from 20-40 yds.
A Cape Buffalo staring at you from 20 yds. LOOKS a whole lot bigger than a Bison munching grass 120 yds. away!!! :shocked2:
 
I'd think that a 20 ga (.62 cal.) smooth bore would be plenty to put buffalo on the menu.

On a forum I used to belong to a member there stated he shot buff (American bison) with his 20 ga. smoothie using a prb and 90 gr. bp.
As for what was used when. Methinks if one needs meat one will use whatever rifle he has be it .45 cal. or .70+ cal. I believe by the time the professional buffalo hunters came on the scene (railroads being built, etc.) they would be using some kind of bullet. e.g. Sharps rifles.
 
Lotsa accounts of failures by the Lewis and Clark party with their 54's. I suspect it reflects more on their ability to get close enough for really precise shots. Probably a pretty good reason the Indians preferred bigger calibers for their own expert hunting.
 
Smoothbore muskets in .69 or .72 were often used on buffalo. The cut down versions of them, as well as the cutdown fusils, are famously called blanket guns. Decorated with various ornaments including brass tacks, rawhide, paint and feathers, I am sure they accounted for a large amount of buffalo that were killed right up until the wild herds of bison disappeared from North America; and a large amount of the hides that were traded for and shipped east. A few rifled .69 caliber muskets might have made it to the plains, but probably not that many. The smoothbores, though, were the absolute cheapest gun around, before and immediately following the Civil War. They were also very effective in the hands of people who regularly hunted on horseback, where long range accuracy was not a consideration. Ease of loading would have been more important than the added accuracy.
 
BrownBear said:
Lotsa accounts of failures by the Lewis and Clark party with their 54's.
Good point,
Henry Schoolcraft's narrative journals from the 1820 expedition that named the source of the Mississippi has an entry that's just a few miles from here.
They had stopped to hunt where they could see Elk and Buffalo herds, after several failed attempts they handed their rifles to the native guides and soon (within hours) harvested 3 Buffalo and 2 Elk.
 
BrownBear said:
Lotsa accounts of failures by the Lewis and Clark party with their 54's. I suspect it reflects more on their ability to get close enough for really precise shots. Probably a pretty good reason the Indians preferred bigger calibers for their own expert hunting.

The accounts I have read of Indian buff hunts and, even, the later professional hunters showed they were not interested in quick (humane?) kills. The Indians brought in the women to butcher dead buffs after the herd ran off. The professional hunters did not even try for quick one-shot kills. They were more interested in allowing the animal to slowly drop so as to not alarm and stampede the herd. The L&C accounts I read of rifle failures was against grizzly bears. As you know, terribly hard critters to kill.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
The L&C accounts I read of rifle failures was against grizzly bears.

They (and lots that followed behind them) were fond of the phrase "to no effect," describing stalking buff and shooting them to no effect, watching them run off. Reload and try again on the next batch you could get close to.
 
Many years ago with my grade school age daughter watching, I was able to get three shots off at a deer with my TC 50 cal. and there was no effect. It then ambled off. I think I missed. :idunno:
 
BrownBear said:
Rifleman1776 said:
The L&C accounts I read of rifle failures was against grizzly bears.

They (and lots that followed behind them) were fond of the phrase "to no effect," describing stalking buff and shooting them to no effect, watching them run off. Reload and try again on the next batch you could get close to.
I have never shot a buff, but have read that since there can be three or more feet from brisket to hump many novice hunters tended to shoot too high, when the kill zone is low near the fore leg. Short of a gun mounted on wheels size wont make up for poor shot placement.
 
I have shot many bison over the years. I have used a variety of guns including .54 cal muzzleloaders with round balls. As hunting any animal shot placement is the key. The heart is near dead bottom of the thoracic cage and right behind the foreleg. I have not had any issues in killing a bison with a .54. Longest shot was approx 75yds. I do not think that I would want to shoot any further even though I know I can hit the mark. Most of the time the bison after being hit just stood there and then fell over. The rest of the herd usually just stood there and watch for a few seconds and then just trot off a short distance before resuming grazing. Killing a bison with a muzzleloader is more than possible but it takes the ability to hit your target well, knowing the limits of your rifle the ability to pass on a shot cuz it ain't good.
 
MC One Shot said:
I have shot many bison over the years. I have used a variety of guns including .54 cal muzzleloaders with round balls. As hunting any animal shot placement is the key. The heart is near dead bottom of the thoracic cage and right behind the foreleg. I have not had any issues in killing a bison with a .54. Longest shot was approx 75yds. I do not think that I would want to shoot any further even though I know I can hit the mark. Most of the time the bison after being hit just stood there and then fell over. The rest of the herd usually just stood there and watch for a few seconds and then just trot off a short distance before resuming grazing. Killing a bison with a muzzleloader is more than possible but it takes the ability to hit your target well, knowing the limits of your rifle the ability to pass on a shot cuz it ain't good.


Nothing like the voice of experience.
Good post. :thumbsup:
 
Cruzatte said:
Sounds interesting. Was it an antique? Does .7 bore mean 7 gauge or .70 caliber? Either way, that's an awfully big gun for buffalo. I'm assuming American Bison here. Cape buffalo....well that's a whole other story perhaps. Goodness, I'd think that a 20 ga (.62 cal.) smooth bore would be plenty to put buffalo on the menu.

Yeah, it was an antique, an original dating back to the end of the 1700's. Not a cut off trade gun for riding through the stampede. It was a large hunting piece. Any way, I was wondering was that one an anomaly, a one of a kind as far as what has survived down to the present day?
 
It isn't much wonder RBs take a while to have an effect on Bison. Even large caliber CFs very often appear to have no effect on Bison. Have a look at this hunt of free range wild Bison in Northern Alberta.

Free Range Wild Bison
 
Even a well placed .45 PRB will kill one. Likely be a long chase. Heck the Indians used to ride along side the herd and shoot em with homemade bows/arrows and then drift back and track the heard and pick up the kills. (betting they tracked miles sometimes). They had the time though, w/o texts, calls, faxes, e-mails, jobs, bosses, taxes, little league, lawns, criminal minds etc :hmm:
 
It is thought quite a few of L & C's men were equipped with .69 smoothbore muskets( particularly the Regular Army guys ).

Plenty of killing power if a decent powder charge is used,
but without all the choices we have nowadays of different bullet sizes, precision molds, any thickness of patching material we want, all kinds of wads and lubricants, their effective range on any kind of individual target may have been pretty short. And that's not even factoring in human error and uncorrected vision problems.

As someone else has stated, most western buffalo hunters may have at least started out using whatever they had, and only upgraded if they felt the need to and / or when they could afford to.
 
It is thought quite a few of L & C's men were equipped with .69 smoothbore muskets( particularly the Regular Army guys ).

Plenty of killing power if a decent powder charge is used,
but without all the choices we have nowadays of different bullet sizes, precision molds, any thickness of patching material we want, all kinds of wads and lubricants, and uncorrected vision problems, their actual effective range on any kind of individual target may have been pretty short.

I am aware there were occaisional problems getting clean kills even with the rifles, but as someone was shooting something almost every day if game was available, there would have been many more opportunities to muff a shot.
It would be a mistake to assume they were all dead shots.

- SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST -
 
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