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MN Big Game regulations & ML

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phoenix511

40 Cal.
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Not sure what to make of the MN 2015 Big Game regulations. Pretty clear on ML (assuming they are long arms), and note C&B revolvers are not, but look at what they say about legal firearms & handguns (p60 of 2015 MN Hunting Regulations):

LEGAL FIREARMS (INCLUDES HANDGUNS) FOR BIG GAME
Ӣ It is at least .220 caliber and has centerfire ignition;
Ӣ It is loaded only with single projectile ammunition;
Ӣ The projectile used has a soft point or is an expanding bullet type;*
Ӣ The muzzleloader (long gun or handgun) used cannot be loaded at the breech (muzzleloading revolvers are not legal for taking big game);
Ӣ The smooth-bore muzzleloader used is at least .45 caliber and the rifled muzzleloader used is at least .40 caliber;
”¢ Muzzleloaders with scopes are legal during the regular firearms deer seasons, but are not allowed during the muzzleloader season except by hunters age 60 and over or by special permit for hunters with a medically certified visual impairment. Applications are available from the DNR Information Center, see page 122.


So my 45cal Deringer and my 32cal PPK are legal for big game hunting in MN! FWIW, statewide ML only season is late Nov to early Dec. As others have noted, it can be 50's & bare ground, or -10 w/18" of snow and change from one extreme to the other in 24hrs or less.
 
Technicality: only pepper boxes are muzzle loading revolvers. Colt and remington style guns load from the front of the chamber NOT from the muzzle. In addition all remington and winchester percussion cap tins until about 1970 indicated that percussion caps are centerfire.
Your state may well have different definitions in the law, but if so, the people writing the law know little about firearms, which would be part for game authorities.
 
Wet Willie said:
Not sure what to make of the MN 2015 Big Game regulations. Pretty clear on ML (assuming they are long arms), and note C&B revolvers are not, but look at what they say about legal firearms & handguns (p60 of 2015 MN Hunting Regulations):

LEGAL FIREARMS (INCLUDES HANDGUNS) FOR BIG GAME
Ӣ It is at least .220 caliber and has centerfire ignition;
Ӣ It is loaded only with single projectile ammunition;
Ӣ The projectile used has a soft point or is an expanding bullet type;*
Ӣ The muzzleloader (long gun or handgun) used cannot be loaded at the breech (muzzleloading revolvers are not legal for taking big game);
Ӣ The smooth-bore muzzleloader used is at least .45 caliber and the rifled muzzleloader used is at least .40 caliber;
”¢ Muzzleloaders with scopes are legal during the regular firearms deer seasons, but are not allowed during the muzzleloader season except by hunters age 60 and over or by special permit for hunters with a medically certified visual impairment. Applications are available from the DNR Information Center, see page 122.


So my 45cal Deringer and my 32cal PPK are legal for big game hunting in MN! FWIW, statewide ML only season is late Nov to early Dec. As others have noted, it can be 50's & bare ground, or -10 w/18" of snow and change from one extreme to the other in 24hrs or less.

Florida's laws are similar and a .25acp round meets their legal definition, as it apparently would in your state. Tennessee is almost as bad, a muzzleloader .36 caliber, or larger is legal to use to hunt deer.......roin :hmm:
 
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Come`on guy's, get real.
A 25acp being legal(?) well I guess so, but what idiot would use one just because the law defines it as proper use, or any short barreled hand gun of CF definition?
There are Hunter ethics involved and if your in the field using said gun and a CO found you,, I'd bet he'd do his best to find something else to slap on ya. At least I hope he'd spend a good deal of time trying to find something.
Our MN deer and those of surrounding northern tear states aren't like the oversized dogs they shoot in the southeast
 
Sadly, ethics and common sense can be long gone when some fool reads the MN Regs. I wish the MN DNR had consulted with some knowledgeable firearms people befor writing these goofy regs.

And ... it is very hard for a bureacrat to admit they authorized a stupid reg, and change it to something more common sense.

Perhaps there is a way citizens can get their attention in a non-threatening way to add some changes.
 
Par for the course in many states. Had a local town that passed an ordinance to fine the owners of dogs that barked between midnight and 7 am. But the actual language prohibited the owners of dogs from barking. So as long as just the dogs bark, and the owners don't, there is no violation. Of course the township attorney was laughed out of town.

Here in PA we have similar problems. The Game commission tries to play both sides of badly worded rags and rules. For instance a pistol that can shoot 410 shells is no longer a pistol, but a shotgun when loaded with 410 shells. Magically becomes a pistol again when loaded with 45 colt cartridges. (Pistols over 22 caliber are not permitted for small game.) However, shotguns with pumpkin balls are permitted in exurban areas for deer, but a smooth bore flintlock pistol, stays a pistol and is not a shotgun for purposes of deer hunting. Yet a 20 ga slug gun with rifling stays a shotgun)
 
Wet Willie said:
I wish the MN DNR had consulted with some knowledgeable firearms people befor writing these goofy regs.

From the statements I have read from the MN DNR on this issue, they are very well aware that the stupid rules they wrote make it possible for people to use calibers that are completely inadequate for deer-sized game. When they first made this rule change a few years ago, they also had a statement that hunters should use common sense in selecting calibers adequate for the game hunted. I see in the 2015 regs that it is now just worded in a footnote as: "Hunters should select bullets of the proper design and weight for taking big game."
 
And some people don't understand why some States hunting laws specify caliber, muzzle velocity, downrange retained energy, bullets by brand names and a bunch of other requirements designed to keep idiots from taking advantage of loosely worded laws.

I'm sure you and the others here aren't the type but some people will intentionally use guns and ammunition that can slip thru the loopholes.
They think doing this makes them somehow "smarter" than everyone else. :(
 
Yes there are fools who will hunt deer with a 2mm Kolibri with all 7 ft lbs of muzzle energy. (I think still the smallest commercially loaded center fire cartridge) But here in PA, they wrote laws and regulations so limited that matchlocks and wheel locks are no longer legal except in a few small densely populated areas outside Pittsburgh and Philadelpha, breech loading Fergusons and Sharps (and other flint or percussion breech loaders) are not legal for anything but Coyotes. The new regulation out-lawed double barrel and swivel breech muzzleloaders for deer. (But their centerfire counterparts are still legal) In a space of less than a year, our Commission decided that cap and ball revolvers were muzzle loaders and had to be 50 cal and over for deer or under 40 caliber for small game. A few months later, they were considered not muzzle loaders and were not legal for anything unless for coyotes or if 22 cal and under were legal for small game. Lastly, they decided that cap and ball revolvers were "close to centerfire" and legal for deer. According to 100 years of Remington and Winchester cap tin labels they are center fire. (the centerfire designation was dropped from percussion cap labels about 1970 )
For decades peep sights were prohibited in PA for muzzle loaders by the requirement that muzzle loaders must have open sights. It was with great fanfare that the Commission repealed the language "open sights" so that Peep sights could be used. About 8 years later they put the requirement for "open sights" back in the regulations, when questioned, they said Peep sights ARE open sights! :youcrazy:
A double flip flop on cap and ball revolvers in one year. Had they consulted with anyone that had a knowledge of firearms history, they might have saved a lot of confusion.

20 years ago, I purchased a Stevens model 44 in 25-21 steven centerfire. It had a 4 power Unertl Target scop on it. When I finally gathered the shooting andd loading equipment I planned a squirrel hunting outing. A month later they out lawed all centerfire guns for small game. Two years later, they permitted any centerfire under 23 caliber for small game. Their rules have nothing to do with safety or they would not permit a 220 Swift or 223 to be used for small game. Yet a cartridge intended for small game is illegal.

A 41 Swiss Rimfire is no longer legal for anything, although it is as powerful as the venerable 30-30.

As a wise man said: "They make no sense. Do not try to understand them."
 
Not much better here in MN for M/L in 2016 than in 2015.

I'd urge those on this Forum to get involved with reasonable state legislators, through shooting clubs and organizations, to help that legislator (like door-knocking on their behalf)and then get a knowledgeable voice on hunting issues. Much of the hunting regs are done w/o public hearings. Most of is written by staffers and/or lobbyists. Complex issues, like firearms, need consultation with people who fully understand the issues.

C&B revolvers still singled out for prohibition, any CF caliber at least .220, footnote on p.60 adds: "hunters should select bullets of the proper design and weight for taking big game. Most manufacturers offer either bonded or all-copper bullets that are appropriate for taking big game."

No guidance offered on bullet wt/diameter/velocity, and no penalty cited for non-compliance.

So as an extreme example, the 25ACP is OK with the 35gr JHP as it is advertised as a personal defense load for human-sized (big game) targets. And a 45cal Deringer killed President Lincoln so it should qualify for big game. Doubtless a CO would try to find some other violation with the person hunting whitetail deer w/25ACP or a Lincoln Deringer, maybe succeed in that, but not likely a MN firearms violation.
 
Wet Willie said:
So as an extreme example, the 25ACP is OK with the 35gr JHP as it is advertised as a personal defense load for human-sized (big game) targets.
:bull: Shut up. I don't care much about this being a wonderful family site,, that statement is just Plain WRONG.
 
Deputy Dog said:
I forgot to add that, not only is a .36 caliber muzzleloader legal to use for deer, in Tennessee, the same gun is legal to use on black bears, go figure......robin :confused:

Obviously, a law written by a anti-hunter, rooting for the bear. :hmm:
 
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Perhaps I don't understand your question about different firearms in different land areas.

In MN, there are specific areas (well-illustrated on DNR maps) for rifles and other areas are shotgun only for hunting big game. In general, the central and W 1/3 portion of the state is shotgun only, the rest is rifle (but you can use a shotgun if you want).

Where the areas adjoin, usually defined by a road, one side is OK for a rifle, the other side for shotgun only. M/L firearms, even with rifled bores, are legal in shotgun only areas.

MN has a special season for M/L only that is state-wide. I find the 2016 MN Hunting Regulations (all 132 pages) are very complex, but the MN DNR folks are quickly responsive to email/telephone questions and helpful.
 
SDSmlf said:
Can you hunt with the weapon (traditional muzzleloader) of your choice? Does it really matter what the hunter on a ajoining property or one that is one, two or three mile away hunts with?

My interpretation of this statement,which is directed at Zonie's comments, and I could be wrong, is that it's really no one else's business what the guy next door is using.

My response would be that we ALL have a stake in hunters in general using firearms (or bows for that matter) appropriate for the game hunted. Wounded deer running around or dying out on the golf course and being seen by non-hunters, or hunters in the bar spilling their guts about shooting one, but they just couldn't find it, impact all of us. Wounding and non-recovery will eventually happen, even under good circumstances, to very nearly everyone that's hunted long enough...we don't need to encourage it by legalizing inadequate arms. :2
 
My attempt at sarcasm earlier about MN big game firearms regulations was ill-advised and I apologize. I was trying to show the unintended consequences of MN poorly written guidelines.

In no way do I condone the use of inadequate and unethical firearms or tactics. The animals we hunt must be respected and taken humanely.
 
Jesse Venturas administration fixed a lot of laws and rules in MN. These are a lot easier/simpler to understand then before they helped us. :grin:
 
For 2018, the Minnesota Big Game regs now read:

"Muzzleloaders (long gun or handgun) cannot be loaded at the breech (black
powder revolvers are not legal for taking big game if they are loaded through
the cylinder);"

"Smooth-bore muzzleloader used must be at least .45 caliber• Rifled muzzleloaders are at least .40 caliber"

Could be better phrased, but I feel this can be interpreted that my Ruger Old Army revolver is now legal for deer in Minnesota as long as I don't use a cartridge conversion cylinder.

Comments?
 
I wouldn't use a cap & ball revolver of any kind if that is the way the law reads.

It isn't very clear what "loaded thru the cylinder" really means.
You are assuming it means loading from the rear of the cylinder but a game officer might interpret it as loading the chamber thru the chamber mouth, without the ball/bullet passing thru the barrel.
 
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