Muzzleloading Forum .....


Contact - Can't Login?
Login Name Post: Jim Bowie's Rifle        (Topic#283708)
Captjoel 
45 Cal.
Posts: 919
10-28-13 05:46 AM - Post#1325541    


For all of the interesting commentaries about the Alamo and history of Texas' beginnings, I found this site of interest. I sure cannot vouch for the accuracy or truth behind the claims. Would love to here what others have to say regarding this. http://tenring.com/bowie/JimBowieAlamoRifle.html

 
alex efremenko 
40 Cal.
Posts: 370
10-28-13 07:50 AM - Post#1325556    

    In response to Captjoel

It looks like a restock of various parts to me"English styled"?
some parts of it seem crudely done.

 
Many Klatch 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3239
Many Klatch
10-28-13 11:17 AM - Post#1325613    

    In response to Captjoel

I wonder why Bowie would have gone to war with a .36 caliber rifle? Surely he had better choices.

Many Klatch

 
satx78247 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5586
10-28-13 12:01 PM - Post#1325627    

    In response to Many Klatch

IF the rifle was Jim Bowie's (a BIG if, imVho), it may be another case of "MAJ Audie Murphy's gun", that (some years ago) seemed to be "all over the place" for sale.
(Audie Murphy probably owned 50 rifles, shotguns and pistols.)

May I point out also that COL Bowie lived in San Antonio for the last years of his life and his "personal effects" may well have been brought to the Alamo fortress "for safekeeping", when the enemy army approached San Antonio.
(Like "Many Klatch", I doubt that Bowie would have picked a .36 caliber rifle "to take to war".)

just my GUESS, satx
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barret Travis, Lt Col., comdt.
Fortress of the Alamo, Bejar
Fby 24, 1836


 
nchawkeye 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2199
10-28-13 03:56 PM - Post#1325703    

    In response to Many Klatch

By this time calibers around .40 were quite common ...Recently there was an article in MuzzleBlast about a .38 caliber rifle from The Battle of New Orleans...

 
GangGreen 
45 Cal.
Posts: 620
10-28-13 05:45 PM - Post#1325732    

    In response to nchawkeye

I have no clue whether this is or could be Bowie's rifle or not. What surprised me the most about the photos was the nice condition of the Gulcher lock and the tiny, tiny silver pin that was used for a front sight.


 
Wes/Tex 
Cannon
Posts: 7393
Wes/Tex
10-28-13 07:53 PM - Post#1325782    

    In response to Captjoel

"...supposedly removed from the dead hands of Jim Bowie...."

By who? Since all the booty went to the assault troopers and senior officers of Santa Anna's Band -of-Merry-Men, there's no way it could be traced back to the Alamo battle except by some "Great-Great Grandpa said he found this under Bowie's bed" story...and that's not provenance! There's even an 1839 percussion conversion of a M.1809 Potsdam musket in the San Jacinto museum that was "at the battle"...three years before it was reworked in Prussia!? Yeah, right, and I'm the Queen of France!!

 
tenngun 
Cannon
Posts: 6381
tenngun
10-28-13 08:27 PM - Post#1325796    

    In response to satx78247

"Bat" Masterson, after he moved to new york, used to buy cheap pistols and resell or give them away as guns he had used. I wonder that guns that were owned by Bowie,or picked up,or was being carrier by Grandpa when he saw Bowie or happened to be in texas or arkansas the same year that Bowie was there could be passed off as bowies rifle.
A man with a sword may talk of peace.A man with out a sword may talk of peace,but he must talk very fast indeed.


 
Wes/Tex 
Cannon
Posts: 7393
Wes/Tex
10-28-13 09:15 PM - Post#1325820    

    In response to tenngun

  • tenngun Said:
"Bat" Masterson, after he moved to new york, used to buy cheap pistols and resell or give them away




Pat Garrett used to do the same thing any time he needed a little pocket jingle or pump up a profitable sponsor. Never mind that some of the guns that killed Billy the Kid were made 10 years after his death...oooops!

 
Birdwatcher 
45 Cal.
Posts: 641
10-29-13 05:11 AM - Post#1325886    

    In response to Captjoel

The photos didn't enlarge for me, and even if they would have done I think I would have wanted better ones.

Going by the relative size of the .36 cal hole in the barrel, the piece appears to be small, almost a child's gun. I'd love to know the LOP, IIRC Bowie was a big guy.

It certainly COULD have come from the Alamo I guess, but even if it did, no real telling who carried it there. OTOH, Bowie would be a likely candidate for having a fancy rifle already in San Antonio when the shooting started. Sounds logical that he coulda grabbed all his firearms during the mad scramble into the mission when Santa Anna showed up.

On the second '77 link from the Waco newspaper I'm wondering about that Bowie knife pictured that was "found on the field at San Jacinto", complete with cross guard, clip point, and what looks like a brass spine to the blade. Sure would be a significant piece if it really was in Texas in 1836.

Birdwatcher


Edited by Birdwatcher on 10-29-13 05:14 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
frogwalking 
45 Cal.
Posts: 691
frogwalking
10-29-13 06:05 PM - Post#1326126    

    In response to Captjoel

Eight groove rifling? I thought hand rifled barrels generally had an odd number of grooves so each groove was cut with the cutter backed by a land.

 
Billnpatti 
Cannon
Posts: 7193
Billnpatti
10-29-13 07:07 PM - Post#1326146    

    In response to Captjoel

Nothing was said about the provenance. Other than the owners claim to its identity, what provenance is there? Do you have any idea? There must be something or it would not have been kept on display in the Alamo for so long. They obviously had something to cause them to believe that it was, in fact, Jim bowie's rifle. I'd be interested in seeing what that provenance is.

 
Billnpatti 
Cannon
Posts: 7193
Billnpatti
10-29-13 08:22 PM - Post#1326164    

    In response to Captjoel

I red the newspaper article and there is one major problem with the photography portrait of Jim Bowie and that is the fact that Jim Bowie died in 1836. The earliest photograph of a human was not taken until 1839. Google "Earliest photograph of a human"

http://agonistica.com/the-story-of-the-first-photograph-ever...

Edited by Billnpatti on 10-29-13 08:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bpd303 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3327
bpd303
10-29-13 09:27 PM - Post#1326192    

    In response to Billnpatti

OOPS...

 
Wes/Tex 
Cannon
Posts: 7393
Wes/Tex
10-29-13 09:35 PM - Post#1326193    

    In response to Billnpatti

  • Billnpatti Said:
Nothing was said about the provenance. Other than the owners claim to its identity, what provenance is there?



That was my point exactly, we know who was left alive...even by default, and they didn't document the items they picked up. You can bet your last peso the senior officers got most of anything important or usable. This would have trickled down the rank ladder till the last fusileer made off with whatever he liked or could peddle. So just who took this rifle from Bowie since the only person alive from his room said he defended himself with a knife.

 
satx78247 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5586
10-31-13 02:21 AM - Post#1326553    

    In response to Wes/Tex

IF a person chooses to believe COL Bowie's 2 sisters-in-law, who nursed him until he was bayoneted to death, they said later that he had his "big knife" and a pistol, as he was unable to fire a rifle "at the end".

According to Patrick Wagner, MD of Gonzales, Col Bowie was suffering from a fractured leg, pneumonia, typhoid fever, TB and possibly from typhus as well.
(Dr. Wagner bases his "diagnosis" of Bowie's ailments on descriptions of his symptoms mentioned in a private letter by Elisa de Meramendi, the elder of the sisters.)

IF Bowie was as ill as Dr. Wagner believes, it is a wonder that he could fight with knife/handgun.

yours, satx
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barret Travis, Lt Col., comdt.
Fortress of the Alamo, Bejar
Fby 24, 1836


 
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Print Topic


1009 Views
Welcome Guest...
Enter your Login Name and password to login. If you do not have a username you can register one here

Login Name

Password

Remember me. Help



Login Not Working?...

Registered Members
Total: 31537
Todays
Birthdays
11-19Darkhorse
11-19Eddie Southgate
11-19Raedwald
11-19Old Mikey B
11-19hobowonkanobe
11-19mmutarelli
Current Quote
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
~ Sir Winston Churchill

PRIVACY POLICY
FusionBB™ Version 3.0 FINAL | ©2003-2010 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.107 seconds.   Total Queries: 65  
All times are (GMT-6.0). Current time is 08:52 PM
Top