Jim Bowie's Rifle

For all of the interesting commentaries about the Alamo and history of Texas' beginnings, I found this site of interest. I sure cannot vouch for the accuracy or truth behind the claims. Would love to here what others have to say regarding this. http://tenring.com/bowie/JimBowieAlamoRifle.html

It looks like a restock of various parts to me"English styled"?
some parts of it seem crudely done.

I wonder why Bowie would have gone to war with a .36 caliber rifle? Surely he had better choices.

Many Klatch

IF the rifle was Jim Bowie's (a BIG if, imVho), it may be another case of "MAJ Audie Murphy's gun", that (some years ago) seemed to be "all over the place" for sale.
(Audie Murphy probably owned 50 rifles, shotguns and pistols.)

May I point out also that COL Bowie lived in San Antonio for the last years of his life and his "personal effects" may well have been brought to the Alamo fortress "for safekeeping", when the enemy army approached San Antonio.
(Like "Many Klatch", I doubt that Bowie would have picked a .36 caliber rifle "to take to war".)

just my GUESS, satx

By this time calibers around .40 were quite common ...Recently there was an article in MuzzleBlast about a .38 caliber rifle from The Battle of New Orleans...

I have no clue whether this is or could be Bowie's rifle or not. What surprised me the most about the photos was the nice condition of the Gulcher lock and the tiny, tiny silver pin that was used for a front sight.

"...supposedly removed from the dead hands of Jim Bowie...."

By who? Since all the booty went to the assault troopers and senior officers of Santa Anna's Band -of-Merry-Men, there's no way it could be traced back to the Alamo battle except by some "Great-Great Grandpa said he found this under Bowie's bed" story...and that's not provenance! :nono: There's even an 1839 percussion conversion of a M.1809 Potsdam musket in the San Jacinto museum that was "at the battle"...three years before it was reworked in Prussia!? Yeah, right, and I'm the Queen of France!! :rotf:

"Bat" Masterson, after he moved to new york, used to buy cheap pistols and resell or give them away as guns he had used. I wonder that guns that were owned by Bowie,or picked up,or was being carrier by Grandpa when he saw Bowie or happened to be in texas or arkansas the same year that Bowie was there could be passed off as bowies rifle.

tenngun said:

"Bat" Masterson, after he moved to new york, used to buy cheap pistols and resell or give them away

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Pat Garrett used to do the same thing any time he needed a little pocket jingle or pump up a profitable sponsor. Never mind that some of the guns that killed Billy the Kid were made 10 years after his death...oooops!

The photos didn't enlarge for me, and even if they would have done I think I would have wanted better ones.

Going by the relative size of the .36 cal hole in the barrel, the piece appears to be small, almost a child's gun. I'd love to know the LOP, IIRC Bowie was a big guy.

It certainly COULD have come from the Alamo I guess, but even if it did, no real telling who carried it there. OTOH, Bowie would be a likely candidate for having a fancy rifle already in San Antonio when the shooting started. Sounds logical that he coulda grabbed all his firearms during the mad scramble into the mission when Santa Anna showed up.

On the second '77 link from the Waco newspaper I'm wondering about that Bowie knife pictured that was "found on the field at San Jacinto", complete with cross guard, clip point, and what looks like a brass spine to the blade. Sure would be a significant piece if it really was in Texas in 1836.

Birdwatcher

Eight groove rifling? I thought hand rifled barrels generally had an odd number of grooves so each groove was cut with the cutter backed by a land.

Nothing was said about the provenance. Other than the owners claim to its identity, what provenance is there? Do you have any idea? There must be something or it would not have been kept on display in the Alamo for so long. They obviously had something to cause them to believe that it was, in fact, Jim bowie's rifle. I'd be interested in seeing what that provenance is.

I red the newspaper article and there is one major problem with the photography portrait of Jim Bowie and that is the fact that Jim Bowie died in 1836. The earliest photograph of a human was not taken until 1839. Google "Earliest photograph of a human"
http://agonistica.com/the-story-of-the-first-photograph-ever-taken/

OOPS...

Billnpatti said:

Nothing was said about the provenance. Other than the owners claim to its identity, what provenance is there?

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That was my point exactly, we know who was left alive...even by default, and they didn't document the items they picked up. You can bet your last peso the senior officers got most of anything important or usable. This would have trickled down the rank ladder till the last fusileer made off with whatever he liked or could peddle. So just who took this rifle from Bowie since the only person alive from his room said he defended himself with a knife.

IF a person chooses to believe COL Bowie's 2 sisters-in-law, who nursed him until he was bayoneted to death, they said later that he had his "big knife" and a pistol, as he was unable to fire a rifle "at the end".

According to Patrick Wagner, MD of Gonzales, Col Bowie was suffering from a fractured leg, pneumonia, typhoid fever, TB and possibly from typhus as well.
(Dr. Wagner bases his "diagnosis" of Bowie's ailments on descriptions of his symptoms mentioned in a private letter by Elisa de Meramendi, the elder of the sisters.)

IF Bowie was as ill as Dr. Wagner believes, it is a wonder that he could fight with knife/handgun.

yours, satx