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Login Name Post: 12 gauge NW Trade Gun        (Topic#275314)
Snow on the Roof 
40 Cal.
Posts: 384
Snow on the Roof
12-11-12 11:14 AM - Post#1224953    


About one year ago I aquired, from a forum member, a Doliver assembled 12 gauge NW trade gun built from Curly parts. It has been quite a journey but I am starting to get a handle on this big bore flintlock. I have found 2-1/2 drams of FF coupled with a half inch cuoshion wad, a .715 roundball and an over shot card wad gives me the best results. Recoil is easy and accuracy is excellent out to 35 yards or so. Now I want to try shot loads. I'm thinking general pupose hunting loads but have spring turkeys on my mind. How do you all load your 12 gauges? Would you recomend 1F? Do you use coushion wads or double up the over shot wads? I studied the V.M Star link on Spences web sight but 4 to 4-1/2 drams? Thats a big load!



 
Snow on the Roof 
40 Cal.
Posts: 384
Snow on the Roof
12-11-12 11:19 AM - Post#1224958    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

A quick check and that 4-dram load was for 10 gauge. For twelves the recomended load was 3-1/4 drams of 1F, that would be apx 90 grains of 1F. Would that equal apx 80 grains or 2-1/2 drams of FF?

 
Grandpa Ron 
45 Cal.
Posts: 565
Grandpa Ron
12-11-12 11:57 AM - Post#1224982    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

Light on the powder, heavy on the shot, is an old rule of thumb for a tight groups. Also the use of a couple of powder wads instead of a cushion wad is recommended.

I have tried numerous shot cups, paper cartridges etc. and found them inconsistent. They work but do not give repetitive results from my gun.

I shoot a 20 ga. and finally settles on 55 to 65 grains of 3 f and a 1 3/8th oz. shot load. My barrel is 1 1/6" at the breach so recoil is moderate.

I hunt from a blind and keep my shots to 18 yards of less.

Some people report good success with strips pillow ticking forming a shot cup. I have not tried this yet.

What is important is how the load works from your gun. Start at 20 yards and see how tight of a pattern your gun shoots.

At 20 yards a cylinder bored barrel should throw 85% or more of its shot into a 32” circle.

Getting it to shoot tighter is the challenge.

Keep us posted.


 
BrownBear 
Cannon
Posts: 13673
BrownBear
12-11-12 12:06 PM - Post#1224989    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

Dunno what your trade gun weighs, but my NA/Pieta SxS is light, and it gets downright snappish when shot charges go over 1 1/4 oz. Might be okay for one-shot deals like turkeys, but I'm a long way from the nearest turkey. Might take a dozen or two shots in a day, and I just don't want the extra recoil.

I've become a sincere fan of 1f Goex for launching shot. It gives me tighter patterns than 2f, which gives tighter patterns than 3f. In my guns using the same 90 grain measure for powder and shot works out just right. Using 2f I had to use an 80 grain measure for powder for best results, so switching to 1f simplified my loading.

BTW- I get reliable duck-killing patterns to 30 yards with 1 1/4 oz of ITX #4's over a lubed fiber wad, with no tendency to "donut" the pattern when using the 1f. Simple loading. While the pattern is plenty dense for ducks at 30, it's nowhere near dense enough for turkey heads and necks. Smaller shot and closer would improve things, but for major pattern tightening I bet jug choking will yield more than any magic load combo.
"Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
Merle Haggard


 
Golfswithwolves 
40 Cal.
Posts: 393
12-11-12 01:00 PM - Post#1225009    

    In response to BrownBear

For turkeys I believe that heavier shot charges are a good thing. With my 20 gauge trade gun I have found that at least 1 3/8 oz. of shot is starting to be effective (more might be better); less shot in this cylinder bore did not hit turkeys hard enough even at about 20-25 yards. You don't have to be concerned about the heavy shot load stringing out in a manner which would not be desireable for shooting at flying birds as all the shot still passes through the area where a relatively stationary turkey is at. I don't raise the powder volume, only the shot. And I like to pour in some fine cornmeal to cushion the shot. Good luck on the spring turkeys!

 
wattlebuster 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3495
wattlebuster
12-11-12 04:56 PM - Post#1225148    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

My 12 ga shoots best with 110 grns of Fg with a wonderwad an then a overpowder card with 110 grns of #4s topped off with a thin overshot card. Excellent patterns. I tried the thick cushionwads but they blew the patterns very badly. I also am a Fg advocate
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a fine frosty morning


 
graybeard 
45 Cal.
Posts: 607
12-11-12 05:44 PM - Post#1225178    

    In response to wattlebuster

I've got some questions. Just acquired a 20-gauge trade gun for turkeys, grouse, rabbits, etc. First question is why the thick or double layers of wad over the powder? Doesn't it blow holes in the pattern? Also, how do you measure shot charges, by volume? Haven't seen it here, yet, but most folk writing about shot charges suddenly go to drams or even drachms (I guess that's a dram with a throat cold). If those shot charges of one and a half ounces or whatever aren't measured by volume with an adjustable powder measure, do you join Weight Watchers and carry a scale into the bush? Thanks for any help. graybeard

 
Golfswithwolves 
40 Cal.
Posts: 393
12-11-12 06:39 PM - Post#1225200    

    In response to graybeard

Mr. graybeard- You ask about the overpowder wads, and some shooters do report that a 1/2" fiber wad with lube will indeed cause pattern holes. So they use half a thickness of these wads and have few problems. These fiber wads are different from the 1/8" thick cardboard overshot "wads" which are real good as the first one or two layers over the powder before any fiber lubricated wads are put into the barrel (I don't even usually use the fiber wads, just the cardboard ones). As for measuring shot you can most easily do it by volume just like the powder. 1 oz. of shot = approx. 70 grains indicated in the volume measure, 1 1/8 oz. = approx. 80 grains, 1 1/4 oz. shot = approx. 90 grains. Etcetera. Grains is really a weight measure but you can use it in your volume measure as long as you know the weight:volume number of whatever you're measuring. Drams and drachms are exclusively volume measure terms with 27.5 grains by volume = 1 dram = 1/2 drachm. I still get confused sometimes.

 
armymedic.2 
45 Cal.
Posts: 586
armymedic.2
12-12-12 11:39 AM - Post#1225497    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

i do equal volumes of shot and powder for # 6 shot.

1 1/4 oz and ffg.

for turkey i use 1 1/2 oz shot (# 4's), and 1 1/4 oz powder. i use my irish charger for the powder too, so im not sure what thjat equates to in grains. prob about 80.

it kicks, but is more than worth it for turkey and they both pattern well out of my cylinder bores.

 
Snow on the Roof 
40 Cal.
Posts: 384
Snow on the Roof
12-12-12 02:29 PM - Post#1225581    

    In response to BrownBear

How does 1F work in a flintlock? This tradegun has a huge lock and since Matt aka: Lafin Dog worked it over the lock is a sure sparker. But would I be better served with FF?

 
BrownBear 
Cannon
Posts: 13673
BrownBear
12-12-12 04:49 PM - Post#1225672    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

  • Snow on the Roof Said:
How does 1F work in a flintlock? This tradegun has a huge lock and since Matt aka: Lafin Dog worked it over the lock is a sure sparker. But would I be better served with FF?



Can't say for sure about your lock, but I use 1f in the pan all the time on my old Pedersoli Bess. Don't recall a single flash in the pan or slow fire. Folks say it's slower to ignite than smaller granulations, but I'm just not good enough to notice it when I'm shooting. Even if your lock didn't like 1f, then by all means use something faster in the pan. Shooting will answer the question better than I can.
"Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
Merle Haggard


 
Skychief 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3134
Skychief
12-12-12 06:27 PM - Post#1225719    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

80 grains of 2f and 1 5/8 ounces of shot has bee a winning combination out of my 12 gauge on turkeys.

I use NO fiber wad, as just a hard card gives me denser patterns.

Good luck!

 
wattlebuster 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3495
wattlebuster
12-12-12 06:29 PM - Post#1225721    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

Fg works very good in my caywood 12 ga game gun. I use FFFg in the pan that I prime from a small flask pan primer
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a fine frosty morning


 
1601phill 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2815
12-12-12 08:07 PM - Post#1225779    

    In response to Snow on the Roof

It works but you will most likely find 2f better

 
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