Flintlock - Miroku Japan

Hey, any of you skinners ever dealt with one of these? This is the lock from my neighbor's .45 Flintlock imported by Ultra-Hi and made by Miroku Japan. It's a clone of the old CVA Kentucky with the two-piece stock. We are trying to get a reliable spark out of this lock and having some trouble. I have polished the toe of the cam and top of the frizzen spring as well as the pivot screw and the holes it rides in butter smooth using India and hard Arkansas stones along with 320 paper. Disassembled the lock and did the same with all the bearing surfaces and she works pretty slick now but still not getting a good spark. This lock takes a very small (short) flint, and the one shown in the picture is in the jaws just for the picture because it's a ceramic flint that was sent to me to try by a man that manufactured them and it never worked well on any lock I've tried it on. Neither one of us had any flints of the proper size as our rifles use 3/4" flints. I managed to get a fair spark with an old flint that was worn down bad and I knapped enough of an edge to make it work somewhat, but not reliably. I'm not so sure that the frizzen is soft because the flint(s) don't seem to be gouging it, as a matter of fact, they don't seem to scrape it hardly at all. I was thinking about having it rockwell tested before we try anything like re-soling or Kasenite. The frizzen opens smoothly so, could it be that the mainspring is too weak? If so, where could we find a replacement? He is willing to spend a few dollars on it because it was given to him but not go overboard (he isn't trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear). Here are some pics of the lock and frizzen. Thanks in advance for any/all input.
BPS

A quick check of the frizzen hardness is to run a file accross the face of it. If it skims accross without scratching it, it is probably hard enough. If it easily scratches it, it needs hardening. It kinda sounds like you need to find a good flint that fits it, and try that before you go much further.

Look at the angle where the "flint" meets the frizzen at the underside, that is not a scraping kind of angle, it's more like a burnishing angle.
How's that going to shave off any sparky material?
Try putting that bevel up. Shim it out a bit with leather b'twixt it and the screw so the screw clears the frizzen. It will strike a little low on the frizzen but this will tell you about hardness and spark-ability.

Ghettogun said:

A quick check of the frizzen hardness is to run a file accross the face of it. If it skims across without scratching it, it is probably hard enough. If it easily scratches it, it needs hardening. It kinda sounds like you need to find a good flint that fits it, and try that before you go much further.

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I tried that test with a brand new mill smooth file and although I could scratch it, it took a good bit of pressure to do so. I'm thinking about having it Rockwell tested. Thanks,

BPS

Fred_D said:

Look at the angle where the "flint" meets the frizzen at the underside, that is not a scraping kind of angle, it's more like a burnishing angle.
How's that going to shave off any sparky material?
Try putting that bevel up. Shim it out a bit with leather b'twixt it and the screw so the screw clears the frizzen. It will strike a little low on the frizzen but this will tell you about hardness and spark-ability.

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As far as the bevel, turning the bevel over on that flint caused it to contact the frizzen almost flat, as if putting your hand out flat with your fingers folded downward and placing them against a wall. And, as I had stated earlier, that flint won't spark well in any lock I tried it in, it was only there for the picture. We will try a smaller flint when we get some. I did notice that the frizzen face is somewhat concave, although I'm not sure that it's enough to be a problem. Flints tend to wear into shape within a few tries anyway. Could it be possible that the hammer needs to be heated and bent back slightly so that with the bevel down on any flint the screw won't contact the frizzen? How about grinding off a portion of the top of the frizzen instead so that the screw doesn't contact it? I know I'm probably grabbing at straws here.

BPS

What's a "skinner"? :idunno:

Mike Brooks said:

What's a "skinner"? :idunno:

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A "Buckskinner"...taken from the buckskin clothing worn by the Indians, Mountain men, Frontiersman, Trapper/traders, etc. etc.

BPS

These things are not safe to shoot IMO.
The half octagonal models I know of have a two piece barrel that is screwed together. The round portion screws into the octagonal breech section and the bores often do not align very well.
The word "junk" comes to mind.
Funny part is they were made by Miroku IIRC. Who really should know better.
Dan

Dan Phariss said:

These things are not safe to shoot IMO.
The half octagonal models I know of have a two piece barrel that is screwed together. The round portion screws into the octagonal breech section and the bores often do not align very well.
The word "junk" comes to mind.
Funny part is they were made by Miroku IIRC. Who really should know better.
Dan

Click to expand...

Dan,

If you had read my first post a little closer, you would have seen that I stated that it was a two-piece STOCK, not a two piece barrel. It has a 33" octagon one piece barrel and it does shoot, it just doesn't get good spark.

BPS

, they don't seem to scrape it hardly at all.

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It's very possible it could be too hard.
Try a correct sized flint first.

Could it be possible that the hammer needs to be heated and bent back slightly so that with the bevel down on any flint the screw won't contact the frizzen?

Click to expand...

It probably won't help. Did the instructions with the gun specify "bevel down"?

Fred_D said:

Could it be possible that the hammer needs to be heated and bent back slightly so that with the bevel down on any flint the screw won't contact the frizzen?

Click to expand...

It probably won't help. Did the instructions with the gun specify "bevel down"?

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Fred,
My neighbor didn't get any instructions with the gun. It was given to him (used) by his brother, who acquired it God knows where. As I had said, it's a clone of the older CVA/Jukar Kentucky. We would like to get this rifle shooting, mainly to see what kind of accuracy that barrel is capable of. Near as I can figure doing a "spin test" with a tight fitting jag, it's a 1:48 - 1:50 twist and it does have relatively deep rifling.

BPS

Dan Phariss said:

These things are not safe to shoot IMO.
The half octagonal models I know of have a two piece barrel that is screwed together. The round portion screws into the octagonal breech section and the bores often do not align very well.
The word "junk" comes to mind.
Funny part is they were made by Miroku IIRC. Who really should know better.
Dan

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Dan,

That is a pretty damaging statement...can you back it up?

What is the source of this info? Are you positive .... Miroku made a two part barrel that screwed together?

I have one with the two piece barrel musckets. It's about a .68 smooth bore. The frizzen on it is too soft and doesn't spark worth a damn. I picked it up in a pawn shop several years ago for cheap figuring it to be a wall hanger.

I've run across several people that said they had the same gun, and that with some work, they were good shooters.

I've been planning on shoeing the frizzen and do the ole strap to a tire and some string to the trigger trick before I try to actually shoot it.

From what I've been told, they were made and imported back in the 70's for the re-enacting craze that was going on for the 76 bi-centennial.

Blasted dialup is so slow it timed out on me before I could link to the pictures. :cursing:

Was that made by Miruko???

Gizamo,

The one I started the thread about doesn't look anything like the one in capt turk's pics. It's a .45 and it looks like the earlier CVA Kentucky with the exception that it does have a "faux" patchbox and where the two piece stock joins together, there is a brass strap covering the joint instead of a brass plate. It has a 33" one piece octagon barrel is marked "Ultra-Hi" and "Miroku Japan" on the barrel.

capt_turk said:

I have one with the two piece barrel musckets. It's about a .68 smooth bore. The frizzen on it is too soft and doesn't spark worth a damn. I picked it up in a pawn shop several years ago for cheap figuring it to be a wall hanger.

I've run across several people that said they had the same gun, and that with some work, they were good shooters.

I've been planning on shoeing the frizzen and do the ole strap to a tire and some string to the trigger trick before I try to actually shoot it.

From what I've been told, they were made and imported back in the 70's for the re-enacting craze that was going on for the 76 bi-centennial.

Click to expand...

Capt, the ones like you show and are reffering to were and are pure junk. Some even had the barrel's round section and the octagon section reversed. I guess it depended on whether you wanted a "rifle" or a "muscket".

Take my advice, don't shoot it on a bet. Why would you want to treat a worn out tire so badly?

(And it's true, I wouldn't be this negative about an Indian-made "imitation gun".)

BPSmoke, your example is fine.

Yup, It's a Miroku.

Well, if that is a Miroku....

Dan nailed it. And I owe him a apology.....