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touchhole height?

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damron

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Just fit and L&R RPL in my TC Hawken.Does the touchhole seem a bit high compared to the pan?I haven't shot it yet and am new to flints so maybe i am worrying too much.

PICT1699.jpg
 
I cant really go much higher(lock is made for factory inlet).is this typical of an L&R? Or did they make a mistake?
 
I tested low and high vents for a MuzzleBlasts (March 09) article and found that the height of the vent was less a factor than I anticipated. The difference between the low vent and high vent times was .002 seconds. I don't expect you to have a problem. Powder placement in the pan was a bigger factor than high/low vent placement.

Based on your photo, I'd clean off the rough edges on your vent hole and the slot. A few turns with a hand held counter sink would be helpful. You could use a drill, if you are careful.

When priming the pan make sure that you have some powder against the barrel. With a clean vent and prime close to the barrel, you should be OK. I don't recommend a vent this high, but think it will be workable. After shooting it, you can evaluate and see if moving or angling the vent is worth it.

Below is a link to the "Pan Vent Experiments" that was the basis for the article.

Pan Vent Experiments

I forgot. All of this assumes you are using real black powder for both prime and barrel charge. Use anything else, and you will be unhappy regardless of vent position.

Regards,
Pletch
 
As an aside, T/C introduced a vastly improved vent liner in the mid-late 90's...(at the same time they introduced their redesigned/improved lock assembly)...and the new liners are extremely fast and reliable.
They come two in a blister-pac for $4-$5 bucks...you'd do well to consider upgrading that old liner while you're at it too.
 
When priming the pan make sure that you have some powder against the barrel. With a clean vent and prime close to the barrel, you should be OK. I don't recommend a vent this high, but think it will be workable

I disagree with Pletch on his reccomendation of placing primer. Not the first time I have countered his view on this point with my opinon (BTW: based on 40+ years of flint shooting). I suggest not piling up powder under the touchhole but rather make a thin line across the bottom of the pan. Flint ignition comes from a 'sorta' venturi effect, not just burning primer touching main charge.
Understand, Pletch has done experiments. I have to respect that even though I may not agree with his conclusions. However, every flint gun is different. Everytime we shoot a flinter it is a form of "experiment". You may end up having to pile primer under the touchhole for ignition. Dunno, only your testing will prove or disprove that.
I do agree, placement of that hole, IMHO, is quite high and adjustments may have to be made.
Good luck.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
When priming the pan make sure that you have some powder against the barrel. With a clean vent and prime close to the barrel, you should be OK. I don't recommend a vent this high, but think it will be workable

I disagree with Pletch on his reccomendation of placing primer. Not the first time I have countered his view on this point with my opinon (BTW: based on 40+ years of flint shooting). I suggest not piling up powder under the touchhole but rather make a thin line across the bottom of the pan. Flint ignition comes from a 'sorta' venturi effect, not just burning primer touching main charge.
Understand, Pletch has done experiments. I have to respect that even though I may not agree with his conclusions. However, every flint gun is different. Everytime we shoot a flinter it is a form of "experiment". You may end up having to pile primer under the touchhole for ignition. Dunno, only your testing will prove or disprove that.
I do agree, placement of that hole, IMHO, is quite high and adjustments may have to be made.
Good luck.

I hope I wasn't misunderstood here. Notice I said, "..that you have some powder against the barrel." I'm fine with your idea of a, "line across the bottom of the pan." It's important to have a good area of powder for the sparks to land. I assume that your line of powder across the pan includes powder near the barrel too.

When I prime a pan, there is powder throughout the pan. I do make sure that the area under the vent contains powder. Prime near the vent is important to quick ignition - I stand firm on that. The photo evidence on the link assures me of that conclusion. It's kind of like a bonfire. The closer you stand the hotter is is.

As far as the venturi effect - we probably will have to respectfully agree to disagree on that.

Regards,
Pletch
 
I am with roundball, ditch that liner and get then 'new' TC one. I don't have the sophisticated equipment that Mr. Pletcher has but I do have two willing assistants. I can say without doubt they will pick powder against the barrel is faster. This is done without their knowledge of how the gun was loaded. So either they are good guessers or it really is.
I will go a step further and say powder in the touch hole will make a flintlock, at least, more reliable if not faster.

In fact here is how TC recommends you prime. It's there gun so maybe a good practice to follow.

From the TC manual................

Pouring the Priming Powder
Once you are assured that the ignition channel is free of debris, start by
taking your pan charger and trickling some FFFFG priming powder directly
into the touch hole. Then fill the pan approximately 1/2 full. In essence, you are
“laying a fuse” from the pan to the main charge. By giving the stock a few “taps”
with the heel of your hand, you help settle more of the priming powder deeper
into the ignition channel.
 
Looks like a fun ball to add some fur to.

You can likely get 100% ignition by filling the pan to maximum capacity. BUT, if your vent is low the physical powder explosion in the pan may drive unburnt powder against the vent and it will have to "burn through" fuse fashion to get into the main charge. Though it's a VERY fast fuse!

The more desireable method is that the heat of the "plasma ball" (it's not really plasma) of burning gasses above the pan pushes a wave of hot gas and flame into the main charge. Infra red heat travels at the speed of light, so the amount of time it takes to excite the main charge into exploding is a LOT quicker.

BUT! The longest delay is and will ever be the time it takes the flint to drop/throw hot sparks into the pan and have them ignite the priming powder. The more powder where the sparks are falling the better chance of a quick take-off.

IMHO the best results will be with a vent just above the level of the pan powder. If you have a high vent - add more powder.
 
Pletch said:
When I prime a pan, there is powder throughout the pan. I do make sure that the area under the vent contains powder. Prime near the vent is important to quick ignition - I stand firm on that. The photo evidence on the link assures me of that conclusion. It's kind of like a bonfire. The closer you stand the hotter is is.

As far as the venturi effect - we probably will have to respectfully agree to disagree on that.

Regards,
Pletch
Agree on both acccounts.
And in fact, to go a step further, with the good vent liners available having only a thin .020" wall separating the main charge from priming powder...it wouldn't matter if some pan prime WAS against the hole...the thin vent wall essentially makes the whole powder environment like a single powder charge anyway.
 
I agree. What's more is that whenever I prime the prime usually ends up all over the pan regardless how carefully I position it. Especially in the woods.
 
Does the frizzen lid cover the touch hole when it is closed? If it does then you are A O K, good to go. Don't worry too much over it.
 
I shoot most Flintlock pistols in National
competition and I require the fastest possible
ingition. I found out way before Pletch proved it
that you got to prime next to and touching the
hole. Now when you prime right at the hole and
then hold your pistol out some of the priming will
wind up in the middle of the pan over to the hole.
It's just common sense that the little mound of
powder at the touchhole is not going to stay there
until you fire. It spreads out a little, but never
does it spread out past center of the pan.This is
how I get my fastest ingition. If there was a faster way to prime, I would be doing it.
Phil
 
Guys i am new to building flintlocks but that touch hole seems very high to me. What about plugging the existing hole with a bolt, fitted flush on the inside and filed flat on the outside and center punch the proper location and drill and tap for a liner in the proper place? Another similar thought would be to get a liner with an ofset hole. I don't know who sells them, but i have heard of them. I wouldn't think that it would be too hard to get a bolt with the proper thread pitch and drill the hole yourself to make your own liner. Just some thoughts.
 
My fullstock Hawken had a similar dilemma and it didn't fire as reliably as I wanted. It now has a bushing with an offset hole. I had a 3/8" thread bushing, and I could not move it. On a TC, the thread is 1/4-28. If you go to a 5/16 thread bushing, and offset the larger hole, you could move it. I did this on a rifle where I had to move the touch hole forward to get it off the breech face.
 
"I disagree with Pletch on his reccomendation of placing primer.'

Absolutely, let's ignore the filmed evidence :hmm:
 
Stumpkiller said:
I wouldn't think that it would be too hard to get a bolt with the proper thread pitch and drill the hole yourself to make your own liner.

That would be my step #2.

Step #1 would be - shoot it and if reliable put it out of my mind.

Making your own liner requires lathe work to do it right.
 
The hole is a little high, but as the powder in your pan burns, the fire ball keeps getting bigger until it's consumed. That sets it up for more heat to developed by the time it reaches the touch hole. I also prefer the "sunset" position for the touch hole.

I would still change the liner to a White Lightning.
 
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