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Login Name Post: Looking to buy a ML double barrel shotgun        (Topic#261224)
32 Cal.
Posts: 25
09-15-11 06:26 PM - Post#1044642    

I am looking to buy a percussion cap ML double barrel that I can bird hunt with,(dove, duck and turkey), here in Texas. I don't know anything about loading a ML shotgun with the lead and/or steel shot. Looking to start off with an entry level gun till I get broke in with it. Can anyone give me some direction and instruction?

45 Cal.
Posts: 644
09-15-11 07:54 PM - Post#1044663    

    In response to rgreen

I got an older (maybe 20 years old now), used (but very well taken care of) CVA SxS 12 ga after a search of about 3 years. I've had it for about 8 years now. You don't see a lot of them for sale, well I sure didn't.

Check TOTW used guns for sale, Cabela's, Bass Pro, MidSouth Shooter's Supply and other locations for new SxS's. Not a whole lot of help, but hopefully will point you in a direction that will be fruitful.

Posts: 13791
09-15-11 08:20 PM - Post#1044672    

    In response to rgreen

I'm on my second Navy Arms Pietta 12 ga SxS. I used my first one for close to 20 years, taking virtually every bird up here with it, and in fact doing all my duck hunting with it for half a dozen years. I foolishly let it go when steel shot was finally required up here, several years after the rest of the nation. Bismuth wasn't available yet, and steel was a decided no-no with existing wads.

Got to missing it, and finally replaced it with an identical gun this year after several years of looking.

Both mine have been cylinder bore in both barrels, i.e., no chokes at all. That certainly eased loading but limits range a bit. The best I could manage was a more or less equivalent to a MOD choke, but still held my shots to 30-35 yards max. It's pretty easy for me to put the duck decoys closer and bang away, but you might not be so happy with open chokes for turkey.

Steel shot can be used in them with the right plastic wad. Some guys cringe and get all lectury about no plastic wads. Duddn't matter to me one way or the other, but I'm not a fan of steel except at very high velocities (not possible with black powder), so the plastic wads aren't necessary. I used WW12R wads now an then back in my lead shot days to produce those MOD patterns from a CYL bore, BTW.

Rather than using bismuth, I've been working the kinks out of ITX shot recently. I'm downright impressed with results, plus it's cheaper to boot. Still haven't drawn blood with the stuff, but our duck season is less than a month off.

Pedersoli has SxS shotguns available new, plus you see used ones for sale. Some have screw-in chokes and some don't. If I was in your boots, I might consider one so I could use a tight choke for turkeys, then put in CYL or slightly tighter choke tubes as the hunts dictate. Lotsa guys get all quivery and lectury about screw-in chokes too, but they're punching keyboards and you're hunting. Just remember that everything has to be loaded in the front end and many wads aren't likely to fit through a tight choke, meaning you'll have to unscrew the choke to load the gun.

There's a jug choke option too, which amounts to reaming the inside of the bore just back from the muzzle a little to produce tighter patterns. Haven't had it done on mine yet, but giving it some thought. User reports are very positive about results, though you'll get quivery and lectury talk from some of the same folks on jug chokes too.

Basically it's your hunt and the details are up to you. The guns and stuffings are out there, and you can do right well with them.
"Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
Merle Haggard

40 Cal.
Posts: 162
09-15-11 09:00 PM - Post#1044677    

    In response to BrownBear

Rgreen, your best 2 choices will be the cva 12 ga usually imp and mod or imp and imp. look to pay 350 and up you will have to buy used they arent made anymore, I had one and it was a functional gum. you other choice will be a pedersolie, they are made in 10, 12, and 20 ga, the 10 and 12 can be bought with screw in chokes, or plain bbls usually cyl and imp or imp and mod, the 20 is in cyl and imp. prices are from 800 (20) ga to 1000 (10 and 12) ga new. look to pay 500 and up for anything used. I also have my ancestors original 12 perc. and it is safe to shoot, I usually dont hunt with it but will let kin folk shoot so they can say they shot grandpa old gun. You may want to consider a single fowler if you cant find what you want . Shot guns come up pretty regularly in the classified section of this forum. check it daily cause they dont last long. I just bet you can find one in a relativly short period of time yours hounddog

45 Cal.
Posts: 920
09-16-11 10:06 AM - Post#1044771    

    In response to rgreen

The SxS being produced now is the Pedersoli. It's a well made and reliable gun. New ones can be found with either fixed chokes (usually cylinder and Mod), and with screw-in chokes.

Personally, I don't like the screw in chokes at all. They are very hard to load, especially if you want to use plastic wads. I find that I've had better luck with plastic wads, and get quite good patterns with hevi-shot. Some people like the screw-in chokes and hate plastic wads. I have been unable to replicate the burnt wad problems that some report here, but I keep watching and testing for it.

The Pedersolis now in production have chrome lined barrels. They clean up really easily (including plastic residue), but it makes it really hard to re-bore for jug choking.

The current 12 gauge Peds are heavy enough to be a duck turkey gun, although not ideal for dove. Some of their old guns are much lighter. I have one from 1978 that weighs less than six pounds, and handles beautifully. Wouldn't use it on turkeys though.

The used market has been well covered already.

Good luck!

62 Cal.
Posts: 2944
09-16-11 01:55 PM - Post#1044823    

    In response to GreenMt

Recently bought a Navy Arms 10ga here for $495, considered that fair. I had been looking for 2 years on behalf my Son who is overseas. The CVA's didn't impress me much.Here is something to make y'all sick. One of our club members showed up one day with a pedersoli in new/unfired shape,screw in choke tubes-$100. Guy who sold it didn't know what he had.

Wet Willie 
40 Cal.
Posts: 377
09-17-11 03:27 PM - Post#1045153    

    In response to rgreen

My Pedersoli 12ga is a fine shotgun, barrels are 0.722" and 0.698" at the muzzle. Nice trigger, crisp reliable locks, good stock fit (I'm 5'9"), decent wood. At Cabela's & Dixie among others, used often found. I think this would be a good choice for your first ML shotgun.

Remington plastic wads won't fit in the 0.698" bore. Some claim plastic wad cups will improve the shot density. Lots of variables to play with besides plastic wads: shot size, powder, powder volume, felt wads (such as Durafelt or conventional fibre wads), over-powder wads, over shot wads, paper shot cups, etc. In my opinion, a 12ga ML is at best a 20-25yd gun.

Much of the pleasure many folks have with ML shotguns is determining which combination of powder/shot/wads works best. And please keep in mind that despite the fact you could pour 150grs of 3Fg down the barrel, your 12ga will never duplicate a 3 1/2" 10ga Magnum ... but it probably will expedite a trip to your Urgent Care facility for shoulder repair and some loose teeth.

If you want to use the Pedersoli SxS for big game, you will need a different ball/patch combo for the smaller bore if you want two shots. Very shootable original SxS show up for sale sometimes, probably made in the 1850's to 1900's.

You may come across a Beretta 12ga O/U that was sold in the 1970-1980 era. Probably not historically correct, but marvelous shotguns: nice balance, light weight, barrels shoot both shot and ball well, reliable (once you figure out how to keep the lower barrel flash channel clean). Might be spendy for your first M/L shotgun but these are worth the price.

ohio ramrod 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5746
09-18-11 08:17 PM - Post#1045632    

    In response to rgreen

I have used my Pedroseli 12 gauge sxs since the early seventies. and consider it a great gun. The problem with them now is the current price, about five times what I paid for mine.!

50 Cal.
Posts: 1261
09-19-11 03:30 AM - Post#1045711    

    In response to Wet Willie

Its the shootable originals I'd like to know all about. Sometimes it seems price at auctions are about the same as price of the replicas.

45 Cal.
Posts: 612
09-19-11 04:51 AM - Post#1045716    

    In response to rgreen

I have the Pedersoli 12ga and mine has removable chokes and chrome lined barrel. First thing I did was buy cylinder bore choke tubes and lost the others somewhere in my reloading room as I don't need them.

Haven't loaded steel yet, so I don't know if the chrome lined barrels make a difference. Don't load plastic cups either. Just cardboard wads and lead shot. Maybe some day when all the public land goes to steel shot I'll find an alternative.


45 Cal.
Posts: 612
09-19-11 05:49 AM - Post#1045723    

    In response to DanChamberlain

I wanted to edit my post, but can't seem to find a way to do this, so I'll add, I didn't go to muzzleloading shotguns and rifles to make improvements on the technology. I wanted to "embrace" the technology as it existed during the time-frames in history that fascinate me. Yes, my shotgun has chrome lined barrels, so that's a technological improvement that I am willing to accept, because I had the money to buy a double barreled muzzleloading shotgun and the Pedersoli was the offering at the time that seemed to have the most class and distinction of the mass produced shotguns. I didn't buy it because of the choke tubes or chrome in the barrels.

I believe that by removing the chokes and replacing them with cylinder bored ones, I "WAS" improving the weapon. I was getting back to the spirit of the game. I don't confuse "spirit" with PC, because that's a whole 'nuther' game.

So, I stuff cardboard wads over the powder, drop a load of #6 down the bore and cover it with another wad and go to hunting. Doves, pigeons, quail and squirrel all seem to drop dead when she roars...if I'm doing my part.



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