Walks with fire said:
Since your looking at the Lyman rifle you can have both barrels for the same stock. Bullets have many advantages over the round ball but round ball still gets it done quite nicely. I would go .54 for the slow twist barrel and .50 for the fast twist.
For deer hunting either will get it done and I use both bullets and ball. There is nothing like shooting round ball but bullets seem to work better for me but most of my shoots are over 75 yards and that is about where I draw the line for round ball deer shooting.
My rifles are half stock flinters which have drop-in switch barrels for both fast and slow twist barrels. I prefer to shoot ball but bullets drop deer much quicker in my opinion. If you push a 210/240 grain high bc .44 hollow point at .44 mag. rifle speeds things tend to go down quite quickly at close range. If you shoot heavy 400 grain .50/.54 conicals at reasonable velocity things tend to go down quite quickly as well.
The difference between .50 and .54 round ball gets talked about quite a bit but in my opinion the .54 is the best weight and barrel lengths of 32-36" will burn 100 grains of powder very well were a bit longer barrel is required to burn that much with the .50
This is not intended to insult anyone it is simply my opinion on "stopping/dropping" animals with ANY projectile.
First remember that Louis Lagarde (or Thompson or both, see Thompson Lagarde tests) stated that no projectile smaller than a 3" solid shot would reliably stop a man.
And that I have always taken an interest in bullet performance and wound channels.
With this in mind....
Having shot deer or seen them shot with a wide range of calibers and loads probably 50+ (maybe 80 never kept track) with round balls alone, I think the "dropping deer quicker" is silly.
Lung shot a Mule deer or Whitetail will *usually* run about 40 yards. Don't matter if its a 45 RB with 45 grains of powder or a 7mm mag all the same. Some will drop at the shot, some will run 200 yards and pile up in a flurry of flailing hooves, stand for awhile and fall over, or die mid-leap and slide to a stop on the snow. I have seen it all occur, round ball, lead bullet, modern magnum, no difference some times with the same rifle at different times/circumstances.
*Usually* the only way to stop/drop them is to strike or heavily shock the brain or spine. But some just fall over?? Can't tell before the shot.
This is the heart and lungs of a Mule Deer doe. She was facing me at about 40 yards. Rifle was a 16 bore (437 gr ball) flintlock with 140 gr of FF Swiss. MV 1600. Ball weighs within 3 grains what a 54 Maxi does.
The ball struck just to one side of the windpipe, penetrated the heavy brisket and destroyed the heart. It penetrated about 30" in total.
The recovered ball before and after. The unfired ball is .662"
At the shot a considerable amount of blood and tissue was ejected from the hole back toward the gun, enough it was easily seen as a line in the ground. Blood trail was the best I have ever seen.
The circumstances, the deer saw me but was not sure what I was, I was in plain view seated in open prairie. Seeing me may have given her a small shot of adrenaline, blood tests were not performed :wink:
On
average had I shot her with a 50 caliber RB, a favorite deer load BTW, a 45-70 with a 300-400 gr bullet black or smokeless, a 30-06 etc etc the results would have been "ball park" based on experience. Even the pipsqueak 38-40-180 BP (used on one deer as an experiment) will drop a deer
in 40-50 yards with a shot hitting nothing but lungs. VERY poor wound channels, very. The "standard" Lyman 38-40 bullet soft cast 37 gr of FFF. Deer still was dead in 50 yards or so.
My Grandfather, as a child, killed a WT buck with a BP 22 short. Shot it in the garden. His father told him he thought it was hard hit, so the kid followed it up and found it dead. No info on shot placement. He was simply trying to get it out of the garden (anecdotal family history). A friend you used to shoot deer in MT with a 22 related similar effect with modern LR ammo.
This buck shot with the identical load dropped at the shot at 90 yards (laser).
But the ball passed close to the spine and the deer I subsequently found out had lost a fight with another buck very recently and probably did not feel so good having a puncture wound that penetrated 4-5 inches into one ham and a few other minor injuries. He was moving pretty slow. In retrospect I figure he was exhausted.
This buck dropped at the shot but was quartering toward me was well below and ball passed close to the spine. 54 RB. 40 yards or so.
My son did an identical shot with a more powerful 45-70 smokeless HV load at maybe 75 yards. Deer dropped at the shot. Which is better? I get a lot more satisfaction from hunting with my traditional rifles.
I shot two deer 3-4 years ago with the hottest commercial 45-70 load. 325 grain at 2000+ from my rebarreled Marlin and neither dropped at the shot, one required a followup. But bullet performance sucked too, failed to track straight. Something the RB does not suffer from in my experience. But some modern ML bullet DO have issues.
Ball struck center of the shoulder passing just under the bone, look close you can see the ruffled spot in the hair above the rifle.
Now one can take a modern like a 25-06 or 7mm mag and shoot light bullets and they will drop deer like you would not believe you will also not believe the meat loss. My brother in law talked my mom into shooting a deer with a 25-06 and light bullet and she was really ****** at the meat lost that resulted. She usually used a .375 Win Big Bore lever action. It killed deer with no meat loss.
I have shot or seen shot hundreds of deer and some elk. Why is "drop them quicker" silly? Because they (deer especially) cannot be relied upon to die of schedule. In 2007 I shot a whitetail doe at 300 yards, simply could not get closer and had to crawl 50 yards to get this close. 6.5x55 140 gr Speer SP. about 2650 at the muzzle, long heavy bullet (identical cartridges have been used on African Elephant with solids. Bullet struck the humerus, shattering the bone, passed just over the top of the heart through pericardial sac bruising the heart, messing up the lungs. Deer took off like a scalded rat and when butt over tea kettle after about 75-100 yards just as teh terrain made it impossible to see her on the ground. I waited a few minutes since there was a buck who did not want to leave her when he got some distance away I walked to the deer. She was behind a sage with her head up. So I head shot her.
So not only did this very effective deer cartridge not stop the deer, the deer shot in nearly the perfect place did not die in several minutes.
People that claim that one cartridge/caliber/projectile is far superior to another are dreaming. Except the 25-06 ect as noted above.
Now what did the 6.5 accomplish that my RB rifle would not. It has a MUCH flatter trajectory (300 yard point blank range on deer over double my RB guns) that allows me to fill tags late in the season at distances impossible with a RB rifle. Thats it, period. It does not kill better, it does not stop better, it simply increases the range and sometimes makes a bigger mess if the range is short.
Now lets go to increasing the range of the BP firearm. Shoot a bullet is the answer, yeppers. The problem is trajectory. A 45-100-500 Sharps will kill buffalo at 500 yards or more. But hitting something the first shot is impossible. To get close to the kill zone (pretty big on a buffalo) one would need a range finder, a vernier sight and a book with sight setting from other shooting sessions. A wind meter would help too. OR be pre-sighted on the spot
In the old days people gave it their best guess and fired for effect. Even the very experienced hunters would miss deer sized animals the first shot at 200-300 yards, correct then kill the animal. Its documented.
Trying to take advantage of the increased range with a ML rifle with barrel sights is just a dream. This is why people need to read Forsythe's book. The ridiculous trajectory of the Minie ball was why it was not used to any great extent by civilians. Its point blank in a deer sized animal is likely under 50 yards with the service load which cannot be increased BTW with the service bullet. A 50 caliber RB has a 125-130 yard point blank for deer. So does my 16 bore. Hold in the middle from 0 to 130 and the deer is dead. The ball will strike within 3" or so of the aim point.
The conical does a number of things. It gives a false sense of increased power to the shooter, it increases the recoil, pressure and gas leakage (and erosion. It usually increases the trajectory. It will penetrate better, some of them, but a 50 caliber RB will shoot through deer to at least 150 yards.
If some one MUST shoot a 270-350-480 grain bullet for hunting with a ML then they should order a rifle in 58-62-69 caliber. The 69 (14 bore)is a MARVELOUS killer based on my experience with the 16 bore (harder bore size to get) and comments by friends who own 69s. It is actually BETTER than a 12 gauge shotgun and slug since hard lead can be used. With hard lead it is adequate for Indian Elephant (documented).
I have never shot game with a 62 (20 bore) but reading reports indicates its a very nice compromise. The 66-69 calinbers do kick at 1500-1700 FPS in 10 pound rifles and are really over kill for most American hunting. Best use is big bears, moose etc.
The 62-69 round ball guns actually operate at LOWER pressure than the 50-54 with a RB. Properly designed rifles have good recoil characteristics. They have no disadvantages compared to the bullet in 45-55 caliber and several advantages. Bigger holes, better blood trail and a flatter trajectory at *typical hunting ranges*.
Finally what is the point? I hunt with a ML because it puts me in contact with my history. It gives me insight into the past. I prefer to hunt with a traditional ML.
Loading a ML with a bullet, maybe with plastic patch, shooting some gray powder etc etc. Is silly. If I want to pretend at this level I simply take one of the breechloaders and be done with with it.
AND
I REALLY believe the shooting public has been sold a "bill of goods" concerning the effectiveness of the hunting projectiles. ESPECIALLY in the field of MLs. Few handgun hunters will use modern jacketed handgun bullets on anything larger than deer because they are DISMAL FAILURES, sometime penetration on bears has been inches, never getting through the fat. The 240 gr JSP/JHP from 44 mag for example. They use hard cast blunt bullets that PENETRATE. My 44 mag bear load is a heat treated Keith SWC hard as heck. Hopefully I will never use it.
Yet ML hunters will refuse to use a RB since it "won't penetrate" but will use saboted jacketed pistol bullets. Wake up folks.
The 50 caliber round ball will probably not do well with a "Texas Heart Shot" though I did do one that missed the heart with a Sharps Percussion carbine years ago 75 gr of fff and a "Christmas Tree" bullet of pure lead. Still had to follow the deer and shoot it again even though it fell and bled a large puddle of blood from a cut FEMORAL ARTERY before getting to its feet and running off as I reloaded. Bullet exited the at the front of the offside shoulder. Have done the same with a 50-70 from the front. Both killed the deer, eventally. Shooting a much lighter bulelt from a 40-70 kills better than the 50 with similar placement but experience is limited to too few deer (one each) to make a real statement.
Now if you place a shot poorly a 7mm mag will disable a deer faster than a poor shot with a 50-54 rb (though I once tracked one a long time after a client shot a buck with a 308 with a quartering shot at about 100 yards and only got one lung). Had he waited for a broadside shot it would have saved me and another guide time and ammo.
People, ESPECIALLY GUNWRITERS, love to shoot one animal (they gotta get that story in print to make the car payment) or less then pontificate on how wonderful (or bad in the case of the round ball). ITS ALL ADVERTISING PEOPLE. The real truth is pushed aside to make sure the advertisers product is "good" and YOU the reader should buy it in preference to all others.
THIS in what magazines are about: KEEPING THE ADVERTISER HAPPY. SO get out there and buy "new and improved" The latest has been the "short magnum craze". Shooters running to gun stores to by a "short magnum" they had just read about. Never mind it produces the same or less velocity, never mind it will shoot no better, don't matter that the critters they hunt can tell no difference, some gunwriter wrote a glowing report (he had no other option) and they grab a rifle that they have had for 6 months or 10 years and run to trade it in for new and improved.
ITS SHOT PLACEMENT.
Place the shot the animal will die, round ball at 1000 fps, conical at 1000, modern jacketed at 2500. All the same outcome so long as the projectiles will produce adequate penetration, are sized for the game and TRACK straight through the animal.
Everything else is Madison Avenue hype. SELL SELL SELL. It makes the world go around.
The buyer just has less money to see it with.
Sorry but this subject is a pet peeve of mine.
Dan