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Login Name Post: DeHass or Rice Barrel        (Topic#242371)
octagon 
32 Cal.
Posts: 23
01-09-10 07:54 PM - Post#807182    


Guys, I am ordering up a TVM Early Virginia in .54 soon and Toni Avance and I were talking about barrels and they can get anything I want. We discussed my needs and we narrowed it down to DeHass and Rice. She said Green Mountain also, but they are having a hard time getting them. Anyways, out of the 2 or 3 I mentioned which one do you reccomend and why? Shout I get Square or Round grooves? I am going with the 42 inch .54 straight barrel. I am still up in the air about either 15/16" ATF or 1" ATF. I like really heavy guns, but not way too nose heavy. Toni A. said 15/16" should be better for nose weight and that with the quality of the barrels they buy, the metal won`t be too thin. Your thoughts please?

Jack

 
billd 
40 Cal.
Posts: 124
01-09-10 08:50 PM - Post#807204    

    In response to octagon

I don't believe there's a person dead, alive or not born yet that can shoot iron sights as good as either of those barrels are capable of shooting. Round rifling, cleaning a breeze, you may need thicker patches than your used to using.

Bill

 
Ott 
40 Cal.
Posts: 108
01-10-10 08:16 AM - Post#807364    

    In response to octagon

A friend of mine has shot DeHass for years.Tells me that they shoot as good if not better than most any good barrel out there today. I have no experience with the rice barrels but only hear good words about them also.

You might check with Mark about him haveing some overruns.I know he makes some extras when he is set up on a particular size.

Edited by Ott on 01-10-10 08:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Dan Phariss 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4622
Dan Phariss
01-10-10 08:36 AM - Post#807373    

    In response to octagon

  • octagon Said:
Guys, I am ordering up a TVM Early Virginia in .54 soon and Toni Avance and I were talking about barrels and they can get anything I want. We discussed my needs and we narrowed it down to DeHass and Rice. She said Green Mountain also, but they are having a hard time getting them. Anyways, out of the 2 or 3 I mentioned which one do you reccomend and why? Shout I get Square or Round grooves? I am going with the 42 inch .54 straight barrel. I am still up in the air about either 15/16" ATF or 1" ATF. I like really heavy guns, but not way too nose heavy. Toni A. said 15/16" should be better for nose weight and that with the quality of the barrels they buy, the metal won`t be too thin. Your thoughts please?

Jack



I would not use a straight barrel for a long barreled rifle. You can get GM from Tip Curtis Frontier shop pretty reliably.
A swamp allows a lighter rifle with enough breech to put in a vent liner with enough threads etc.

Dan

 
Fishhog 
40 Cal.
Posts: 239
01-10-10 08:37 AM - Post#807375    

    In response to octagon

I ordered a ,58 Leman from Toni 2 months ago.My first choice was a Green Mt. but with the unavailablity I went with regular groove Rice,was 75 bucks more but from everything I hear it will do all the GM can do and maybe more...Just seen what Dan wrote above,that barrel in .54 is gonna be ton front heavy to shoot and carry especially with a 1 inch ATF....Ray

Edited by Fishhog on 01-10-10 08:43 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Billnpatti 
Cannon
Posts: 7288
Billnpatti
01-10-10 09:06 AM - Post#807387    

    In response to octagon

First, let me say that TVM handles only the best barrels. I am not familiar with the DeHass barrels but I can say, without equivocation, that Rice barrels are among the best, if not absolutely the best, you can get. Your rifle is intended for shooting patched round balls and, therefore, should have a twist rate of no more than 1:60. The round bottom rifling is what I recommend for the ease of cleaning. It may require a thicker patch but that is no problem. For good balance, handling and asthetics, my personal choice would be a 15/16 swamped barrel. The swamped barrel just balances better and looks much better than a straight barrel. I have both barrels on my rifles and the swamped barrels are simply the hands down winner in my book.

These are just the honest opinions of an old fart who has been building and shooting muzzleloaders for over 40 years. The opinions are honest but they are free and may be overpriced. You will have to decide.

Edited by Billnpatti on 01-10-10 09:11 AM. Reason for edit: Had another thought to add.

 
octagon 
32 Cal.
Posts: 23
01-10-10 10:36 AM - Post#807431    

    In response to Billnpatti

Good stuff fellas!! Does anyone on here actually have a .54 42" 1" ATF barrel on a long rifle? Toni Avance said they have never made one that long with those specs. Like I said, I want a really heavy rifle, but not crazy nose heavy. Would a .54 in 15/16" ATF take out too much metal and also kinda look skinny?

 
mazo kid 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4789
mazo kid
01-10-10 10:50 AM - Post#807437    

    In response to octagon

Either of those barrels will be excellent barrels. I have heard the DeHaas barrels might have a long waiting time for delivery. One other thing....the Rice barrels are a bit more money, but they are first rate and come breeched! I agree with Dan, a swamped barrel will make a more balanced rifle. Just my $.02 worth.

 
marmotslayer 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4508
01-10-10 11:46 AM - Post#807466    

    In response to octagon

  • Quote:
Would a .54 in 15/16" ATF take out too much metal and also kinda look skinny?



It would have plenty of strength. I shoot several of them in 32 inch and have for years without problems.

If anything, the 15/16th barrel might look better, IMO.

The 42" 1"ATF in .54 will weigh 6.94#, the 15/16th ATF in .54 will weigh 5.75#. So, that is about 1.2# difference. Not much, but it will all be out front!

You could also take a look at Green Mountain swamped barrels. They do not seem to be in as short supply at the straights.

 
Tommy Bruce 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1128
01-10-10 06:24 PM - Post#807620    

    In response to Dan Phariss

I'll second what Dan said. Go with a swamped barrel. The balance will be much better than a straight octagon barrel. You couldn't go wrong with a Rice "c" wieght in .54 cal.

 
Ghettogun 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2965
01-11-10 07:58 AM - Post#807828    

    In response to Tommy Bruce

I have not seen nor heard of DeHass, but Rice is local to my Club and have seen numerous Rice Barrels. By far the best barrels I have encountered.

 
excess650 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1020
excess650
01-11-10 10:28 AM - Post#807878    

    In response to Ghettogun

Trust me, you really don't want a 42" straight barrel in .54 A 42" swamped barrel will have soooo much better balance and feel than a straight barrel, and that includes the 15/16".

What is the reason that you want a heavy rifle? Recoil from a .54 PRB won't be bad at all. If recoil is the issue, be sure to choose a stock design will little drop and wide buttplate like an early Lancaster. <edit> I overlooked the part about "early Va rifle". It should have a similar drop and width to an early Lancaster, but you might want to ask them if this is true of their patterns.



Edited by excess650 on 01-11-10 10:32 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Wick Ellerbe 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5647
Wick Ellerbe
01-11-10 12:29 PM - Post#807924    

    In response to Billnpatti

Billnpatti said "Your rifle is intended for shooting patched round balls and, therefore, should have a twist rate of no more than 1:60."
The standard twist for a Rice in .54 is 1-66. I did not see a twist rate for .58, but 1-66 / 1-72 should be fine. I would lean toward the 1-72 for the .58, if given a choice.
RB accuracy is not completely confined to the rate of twist, but also to the amount of powder used. A fast twist barrel can be very accurate using a RB with light charges, but may not meet the power requirement for certain tasks.

 
octagon 
32 Cal.
Posts: 23
01-11-10 12:33 PM - Post#807927    

    In response to Wick Ellerbe

I am not recoil shy at all actually. I just like big heavy guns, always have. My brother has a US Springfield 50/70 and I love the weight!! I think it is about 9-10 pounds? The only thing that worries me is the rifle being too nose heavy, I can handle the weight.

 
40 Flint 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1548
40 Flint
01-11-10 12:48 PM - Post#807931    

    In response to octagon

Octagon, glad you are getting a nice .54 flinter. As I do not know you nor your physical capabilities, I will not presume to tell you what will satisfy you.

I will tell you that many here would not like either of my .40 caliber rifles with 7/8" X 42" straight barrels. Too bad. I have been shooting them for over 25 years and they still come to the eye and hang for me. If the ol' right eye could only perform as it did 25 years ago!

Tho at 62 I am not as strong, fast or slim as I was, I still shoot and hunt with my rifles that are "too heavy" and "too muzzle heavy".

So, if possible, get to somewhere that you can heft several different barrel configurations and make up your own mind what suits you. A large shoot or rendevouz, Dixon's, even a trip down South to TVM tho it is as cold there as In PA right now.

Sight picture, Trigger control, follow through. TC

 
Tom Black 
32 Cal.
Posts: 39
01-11-10 02:08 PM - Post#807967    

    In response to 40 Flint

My three flintlocks each wear swamped Rice barrels. My most recent is a 54 calibre South Carolina with a 46" Rice barrel and a 14" LOP. It fits me like a glove. All three gunnes shoot better than I will ever be able to. All have their muzzles coned for ease of loading without a short starter. I don't know how you could want a better barrel than a Rice.
Tom Black
Cantucky

 
cptleo 
45 Cal.
Posts: 609
cptleo
01-11-10 07:54 PM - Post#808175    

    In response to Tom Black

I really don't think you can purchase a barrel that is of significantly better quality than the Rice bbl..

 
octagon 
32 Cal.
Posts: 23
01-11-10 11:45 PM - Post#808279    

    In response to cptleo

Seams to be a recurring theme

 
redwing 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2104
redwing
01-12-10 12:10 AM - Post#808294    

    In response to octagon

I have a .54 Cal. Va. Rifle 15/16s 43" Straight Wall Getz. I use it only for cross stick shoots. It is over 11 lbs. It is just too damn clumsey for off hand shooting. I shoot swamped Rice radius cut barrels for off hand they are outstanding.

 
octagon 
32 Cal.
Posts: 23
01-12-10 12:16 AM - Post#808296    

    In response to redwing

  • redwing Said:
I have a .54 Cal. Va. Rifle 15/16s 43" Straight Wall Getz. I use it only for cross stick shoots. It is over 11 lbs. It is just too damn clumsey for off hand shooting. I shoot swamped Rice radius cut barrels for off hand they are outstanding.



I am guessing you would think the same rifle which I am getting with a straight walled .54 with a 1" ATF barrel would be ridiculously heavy and hard to take hunting? Does the 15/16" ATF barrel have enough meat for the sight dovetails and doesn`t make the gun weak at those points? I don`t think it would be an issue with a 1" ATF barrel. I will be using full power loads, probably 90-100 gr. Goex FFG and only roundballs.Does your VA have square or round cut rifling and why? I am leaning towards round cut.

Edited by octagon on 01-12-10 12:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
smoothflinter 
40 Cal.
Posts: 381
01-12-10 06:17 AM - Post#808332    

    In response to octagon

I have a 54 caliber straight octagon with 1" ATF's x 42" long. Its on a southern mountain rifle I built in the late 80's. Being left handed restricted what I could get for stocks back then and I wanted a 54 cal with 15/16" across the flats. Couldn't find one. Pecatonica long rifle had a Hawken full length stock with 1" flats they said they could leave with a 42" barrel channel. I took it. Yeah, its heavy and nose heavy. Thats what the trigger guard spur is for so you can pull the rifle against your shoulder. I can hold it rock steady due to the heft for about a minute. After that its hard for me to hold steady. I've learned to be ready when bringing it to my shoulder to get a well aimed shot off without much hesitation unless I have rest of sorts. I've gotten deer with it. But the first time out with it I had an 8 point buck enter the woods coming near me. I put the rifle up early so he wouldn't detect the movement, but by the time he was within range I couldn't hold steady anymore. Lesson: If you have time, use a rest. Or be ready to safely fire when shooting offhand and get the shot off quick.

 
flintlock62 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4233
flintlock62
01-12-10 07:39 AM - Post#808343    

    In response to octagon

  • octagon Said:
Guys, I am ordering up a TVM Early Virginia in .54 soon and Toni Avance and I were talking about barrels and they can get anything I want. We discussed my needs and we narrowed it down to DeHass and Rice. She said Green Mountain also, but they are having a hard time getting them. Anyways, out of the 2 or 3 I mentioned which one do you reccomend and why? Shout I get Square or Round grooves? I am going with the 42 inch .54 straight barrel. I am still up in the air about either 15/16" ATF or 1" ATF. I like really heavy guns, but not way too nose heavy. Toni A. said 15/16" should be better for nose weight and that with the quality of the barrels they buy, the metal won`t be too thin. Your thoughts please?

Jack



I do not know anything about DeHass, but they must be good or TVM would no sell them. I do know a little about the Rice barrel though and I think you would LOVE their round bottom grooves. One of my rifles has a Colerain barrel which also has rond bottom grooves and it seats the ball easier after the barrel is fouled a little. It also cleans up faster because there are no sharp edges for the fouling to collect in. As far as accuracy, I would bet there is little to no difference between a Rice or a Colerain, but NO rifle barrel beats an H&H barrel. Too bad you can not get one! They are no longer made.

BTW, if you want a 15/16 barrel, the strength of the Rice is quite adiquate. On a 15/16" barrel, I would shorten it to 40" so that it looks more porportioned.

 
octagon 
32 Cal.
Posts: 23
01-12-10 08:10 AM - Post#808348    

    In response to smoothflinter

  • smoothflinter Said:
I have a 54 caliber straight octagon with 1" ATF's x 42" long. Its on a southern mountain rifle I built in the late 80's. Being left handed restricted what I could get for stocks back then and I wanted a 54 cal with 15/16" across the flats. Couldn't find one. Pecatonica long rifle had a Hawken full length stock with 1" flats they said they could leave with a 42" barrel channel. I took it. Yeah, its heavy and nose heavy. Thats what the trigger guard spur is for so you can pull the rifle against your shoulder. I can hold it rock steady due to the heft for about a minute. After that its hard for me to hold steady. I've learned to be ready when bringing it to my shoulder to get a well aimed shot off without much hesitation unless I have rest of sorts. I've gotten deer with it. But the first time out with it I had an 8 point buck enter the woods coming near me. I put the rifle up early so he wouldn't detect the movement, but by the time he was within range I couldn't hold steady anymore. Lesson: If you have time, use a rest. Or be ready to safely fire when shooting offhand and get the shot off quick.




I appreciate the info!! Seeing that you have a half stock and I am getting the full stock, I would think the full stock would be even more nose heavy? Maybe I have that backwards?

 
octagon 
32 Cal.
Posts: 23
01-12-10 08:12 AM - Post#808349    

    In response to flintlock62

  • flintlock62 Said:
  • octagon Said:
Guys, I am ordering up a TVM Early Virginia in .54 soon and Toni Avance and I were talking about barrels and they can get anything I want. We discussed my needs and we narrowed it down to DeHass and Rice. She said Green Mountain also, but they are having a hard time getting them. Anyways, out of the 2 or 3 I mentioned which one do you reccomend and why? Shout I get Square or Round grooves? I am going with the 42 inch .54 straight barrel. I am still up in the air about either 15/16" ATF or 1" ATF. I like really heavy guns, but not way too nose heavy. Toni A. said 15/16" should be better for nose weight and that with the quality of the barrels they buy, the metal won`t be too thin. Your thoughts please?

Jack



I do not know anything about DeHass, but they must be good or TVM would no sell them. I do know a little about the Rice barrel though and I think you would LOVE their round bottom grooves. One of my rifles has a Colerain barrel which also has rond bottom grooves and it seats the ball easier after the barrel is fouled a little. It also cleans up faster because there are no sharp edges for the fouling to collect in. As far as accuracy, I would bet there is little to no difference between a Rice or a Colerain, but NO rifle barrel beats an H&H barrel. Too bad you can not get one! They are no longer made.

BTW, if you want a 15/16 barrel, the strength of the Rice is quite adiquate. On a 15/16" barrel, I would shorten it to 40" so that it looks more porportioned.




Yep, definitely getting round bottom rifling. Do you think 40 inches would look better because????? Do you think it will look to skinny at 42 inches or????

 
longball58 
40 Cal.
Posts: 162
01-12-10 11:31 AM - Post#808391    

    In response to flintlock62

I'm pretty sure Mark DeHass used to work for H&H maybe that's why they are so good!!

 
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