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Login Name Post: Method of removing bore rust/pits ?        (Topic#241883)
Skychief 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3162
Skychief
12-28-09 10:03 PM - Post#802160    


I have a 36 caliber that has a little pitting and rust in the bore. I have tried and tried to improve the bore with different solvents and patches and brushes to no avail. Please advise me with treatments that will work to remove this light rust/pitting.

Not to bias any replies, but, I am wondering if a steel wool (0000) workout might help. I have not tried it in any rifle and am not certain about how to go about it.

In any case, I look forward to any ideas you all will give as the rifle used to be a shooter, but now, is a patch-shredder!

 
ozark57 
45 Cal.
Posts: 821
ozark57
12-28-09 10:42 PM - Post#802184    

    In response to Skychief

Wrap your 0000 steel wool around a bore brush and use WD40 for a lube. Put the bbl. in a vice and really go after it. Patch often and see what you get. Even if some pitting remains, it may shoot well.


 
flehto 
Cannon
Posts: 7661
12-29-09 07:41 AM - Post#802261    

    In response to Skychief

I would try green "Scotchbrite"....it's a little more abrasive. Whether steel wool or "Scotchbrite is used, don't pull it out of the bbl until done stroking otherwise some "bellmouthing" can occur at the muzzle......Fred

 
necchi 
Cannon
Posts: 11829
necchi
12-29-09 10:24 AM - Post#802315    

    In response to ozark57

  • ozark57 Said:
Wrap your 0000 steel wool around a bore brush and use WD40 for a lube. Put the bbl. in a vice and really go after it. Patch often and see what you get. Even if some pitting remains, it may shoot well.



+1,, lubed steel wool, git it as best ya can, not much can be done with the pit's. Then commence a shootin'. Chances are good it'll shoot OK,, and git better after 50 or so shot's and several cleanings been done to the tube, just oil well after cleaning, Once rust get's ahold it'll start back up easier

 
ndnchf 
40 Cal.
Posts: 197
12-29-09 10:24 AM - Post#802316    

    In response to Skychief

While the methods mentioned above will work to some extent, there is a much easier and more effective way.

Degrease your rifles bore thoroughly. Remove the barrel, plug the nipple tightly with a toothpick and stand it in a corner. Go to your local grocery store and by a jar of plain old molasses. Dilute it with water, about 7 parts water to 1 part molasses, mix well.

Pour the diluted molasses into the barrel and let it stand a day or 2. Pour it out (but save it). Rinse, dry and inspect the bore. If rust is still present, pour the solution back in and let it sit for another day or so. Continue until all the rust is gone. When done, rinse well, dry and oil right away.

You think I'm pulling your leg?? Try putting a rusty bolt or scrap steel into a bowl with the solution and see for yourself.

Molasses is an excellent rust remover. Diluting it slows the process and makes it more controllable. It gets into every nook and cranny, unlike steel wool or brushes. It is cheap, non-hazardous and reusable.

Good luck.


 
necchi 
Cannon
Posts: 11829
necchi
12-29-09 10:33 AM - Post#802320    

    In response to ndnchf

,,gonna hafta try that.

 
410-er 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1116
12-29-09 02:40 PM - Post#802425    

    In response to ndnchf

Can't hurt,gotta try it! Thanks

 
LHunter 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1389
LHunter
12-29-09 04:00 PM - Post#802457    

    In response to 410-er

I ve heard of this never tried it. Cant hurt as stated above
Don't Tread On me


 
Birddog6 
Cannon
Posts: 6234
12-29-09 04:58 PM - Post#802482    

    In response to Skychief

IMHO, If it is pitted you are not going to get them out. Etched very lightly, you may steel wool it out or possibly lap it out, or eventually scotchbrite it out. But pits are rust holes where the metal is gone & they don't just blend in or come out. You can steel wool it til H freezes over, and if the bore is pitted, it will still be pitted.
You may get the rust out & get it smoothed up to shoot fine, but you are not going to get the pits out unless you have it rebored. Ed Rayl or Bobby Hoyt can both rebore it & do a nice job& reasonable, compared to rebarreling one.

 
Cabofdoom 
40 Cal.
Posts: 122
12-29-09 05:51 PM - Post#802496    

    In response to Birddog6

  • Birddog6 Said:
.......Ed Rayl or Bobby Hoyt can both rebore it & do a nice job& reasonable, compared to rebarreling one.



Could you supply some contact info please?

COD

 
bull3540 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1955
bull3540
12-29-09 07:29 PM - Post#802514    

    In response to Skychief

Give JB's bore paste a try.

 
catman 
45 Cal.
Posts: 546
catman
12-29-09 07:31 PM - Post#802516    

    In response to Cabofdoom

  • Cabofdoom Said:
  • Birddog6 Said:
.......Ed Rayl or Bobby Hoyt can both rebore it & do a nice job& reasonable, compared to rebarreling one.



Could you supply some contact info please?

COD




Ed Rayl, P.O. Box 91, Gassaway WV 26624
304-364-8269

Bobby Hoyt 700 Fairfield Station Road Fairfield, Pennsylvania 17320
(717) 642-6696 BARREL

 
GoodCheer 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5990
GoodCheer
12-29-09 08:49 PM - Post#802541    

    In response to catman

Ed's a good man. You'll like him. His work is good too.

 
Birddog6 
Cannon
Posts: 6234
12-29-09 09:09 PM - Post#802551    

    In response to bull3540

  • bull3540 Said:
Give JB's bore paste a try.



Basically, that will polish a dull tarnished dingy bore to a bright bore. It would be like taking jewelers rouge to a piece of rusty railroad rail. It may polish the top of the metal, but it not aggressive enough to cut down the high areas to get all of the surface metal down to the bottom of the pits & that is what you have to do to remove pits. You have to remove all the surrounding metal down to the same level the bottom of the pit is That is allot of metal.

 
ohio ramrod 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5746
12-29-09 09:11 PM - Post#802553    

    In response to ndnchf

Maybe that is why my stomach is so clear? I drink molassas in my milk the way the LOL drinks chocolate. When I was a kid (late fourties/early fifties) we could not afford chocolate but had gallons of molassas.It is I admitt an aquired taste.

 
R.M. 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1092
R.M.
12-29-09 11:12 PM - Post#802600    

    In response to Skychief

Just give it a good cleaning, then shoot it. Shoot it a lot. Then shoot it some more, and enjoy. I've seen some nasty bores shoot some pretty good groups.

 
ndnchf 
40 Cal.
Posts: 197
12-30-09 06:15 AM - Post#802656    

    In response to Birddog6

Good point. The molasses treatment will not remove pitting, but it will remove the rust down in the pits. Perhaps a polishing with JB bore polish after the molasses treatment might smooth things up a tad.

I used the molasses solution in a rusty Navy Arms 1863 musket that I acquired a while back. It had been sitting in a garage for 20 years and the bore was pretty rusty. About 7-8 days of the molasses treatment cleaned the bore down to bare metal. It still has pitting, but the rust is gone.

 
snake-eyes 
Cannon
Posts: 6441
snake-eyes
12-30-09 06:59 AM - Post#802667    

    In response to Birddog6

  • Birddog6 Said:
You may get the rust out & get it smoothed up to shoot fine, but you are not going to get the pits out unless you have it rebored. Ed Rayl or Bobby Hoyt can both rebore it & do a nice job& reasonable, compared to rebarreling one.


Birddog,
I have always respected your valued opinions,
as I do on this issue.
Will the rebore process change cal to any degree or is just a matter of changing patch
thickness and or ball diamiter.(Like going from
.490 to .495 for a .50caliber.) Just wondering
snake-eyes


 
Flint62Smoothie 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1324
Flint62Smoothie
12-30-09 09:59 PM - Post#802997    

    In response to bull3540

  • bull3540 Said:
Give JB's bore paste a try.



I LOVE JB's Bore Compound from my old centerfire benchrest wannabe days ... but it really doesn't remove metal 'per se', even though polishing is in effect, metal removal on the sub-microscopic level.

JB's is much finer than fine valve grinding compound and is a mixture of ground glass and extrememly mild abrasives [of a 'strength' less than the inherent covalent bonding strength of metal alloys] made of things like diatomaceous earth [see below]. It will blacken the cleaning patch with sub-optical microscopic metal particles as it polishes.

As others have stated, pits are pits, and whilst polishing, compounds, and other mechanical methods will remove rust ... 'add on' compounds for such holes are non-existent , at least for practical use in a gun barrel.

Via Wikipedia: Diatomaceous earth (pronounced /ˌdaɪ.ətɵˌmeɪʃəs ˈɜrθ/) also known as diatomite or kieselgur, is a naturally occurring, soft, siliceous sedimentary rock that is easily crumbled into a fine white to off-white powder. It has a particle size ranging from less than 1 micron to more than 1 millimeter, but typically 10 to 200 microns.[1] This powder has an abrasive feel, similar to pumice powder, and is very light, due to its high porosity. The typical chemical composition of oven dried diatomaceous earth is 80 to 90% silica, with 2 to 4% alumina (attributed mostly to clay minerals) and 0.5 to 2% iron oxide.[1]


 
redwing 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2104
redwing
12-30-09 10:48 PM - Post#803014    

    In response to Skychief

Fire lapping is a very effective method for removing light pitting and rust from any firearm.
In modern firearms it is done with light loads of powder. The longer the time in bore the better. The grinding compounds are imbeded into a lead bullet and fired and cleaned until you get the right results. The kits come with 3 grades of compound to finish to a bright bore.
In a M/L you will put the compound into a tight weave patch. I use a cotton Duc from Walmart. The ball is patched and pushed down the bore. You do not fire this with powder. You must blow the ball out with a CO2 Ball Ejecter. This will keep the bore clean from powder fowling. This will also allow you to fire indoors if you have a good back stop. The Wheeler Fire Lapping Kit is sold by Midway Supply USA. Just follow the steps in the kit except you will use CO2 and not powder. Do not treat the ball only the patch. Always use a bore guide when starting the ball down the muzzle.



Edited by redwing on 12-30-09 10:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Dan Phariss 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4622
Dan Phariss
01-01-10 09:52 AM - Post#803553    

    In response to redwing

Pitting requires metal removal.
Lapping or cutting. Easier to rebarrel unless its an original gun.

A modern barrel is far easier to replace than to try to lap as lapping can require hours of work to remove .001". Recutting is an option but this costs money to get someone to do it .

Dan

 
Tinker2 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1854
01-01-10 11:44 AM - Post#803610    

    In response to Skychief

I use a home made electrolytic rust removal system that is cheap, easy, safe, and works great. You probably already have 99% of what you would need laying around.

Last year I bought [ $20. ] a Spanish 9mm Destroyer carbine. There was so much rust in the bore that even after running a brush through the bore it was hard to tell it was rifled. I used this to de-rust the bore on it.

Yes, it’s still pitted but the rust is gone and it shoots quite well now.

Listed below is the basic way of doing this.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Electrolytic-Rust-Removal-ak...

If you want try this and want more specific information on doing this inside your barrel I would be happy to walk you through the way I do this.

Tinker2


 
redwing 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2104
redwing
01-01-10 12:51 PM - Post#803638    

    In response to Dan Phariss

Dan, I can see you have never fire lapped a barrel. This is a quick and easy method for barrels that have very light pitting. I have recovered many Lugers, Broomhandles, Colts, and M/L by this method. The Corbon method works well but only in the hands of some one who knows metal work.

 
Dan Phariss 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4622
Dan Phariss
01-02-10 11:05 AM - Post#803995    

    In response to redwing

  • redwing Said:
Dan, I can see you have never fire lapped a barrel. This is a quick and easy method for barrels that have very light pitting. I have recovered many Lugers, Broomhandles, Colts, and M/L by this method. The Corbon method works well but only in the hands of some one who knows metal work.



BP guns, breech or muzzle loaded, are not Broomhandles or SA Colts "recovered" (this would require definition I guess) to the point they look better and perhaps can be shot with smokeless powder.
Fire lapping works very well, some freinds relate, but its not the same as lapping with a rod since it does not allow lapping a specific section of bore.
Have you ever TRYED to remove .001" from a bore by lapping? And actually measuring the bore so as to choke or taper it?
I have lapped barrels before and after rifling both to remove "variations" in the bore and to change the bore size for choke etc.
Over a period of 40 years or so , yes I have lapped barrels.
I don't gunsmith with my keyboard.

There is a BIG difference between lapping to maybe shine the bore and see the rifling easily again, which takes 10-20 strokes sometimes, to actually removing pits so that BP fouling will not collect in the pits to the point the gun must be cleaned every shot or making the bore the same size end to end or choking a bore.
It is possible to smooth a bore with light chlorate pits so that it will shoot with smokeless powder pretty easily especially if jacketed bullets are used. But BP fired in a pitted bore collects fouling in the pits and the fouling buildup is far far worse than a clean bore. Cartridge rifles with pitting that hardly effects accuracy with smokeless will thrown wild fliers by the third shot with BP.
Rough MLs become very difficult to load in 1-2 shots unless water is used as a patch "lube".
Cartridge guns with any significant pitting (1" long in the bore is enough) simply are not usable with BP loads and lapping can increase the bore size to the point the chamber may not allow accurate shooting so most cartridge guns intended for use with BP have to be rebarreled or lined since lapping to remove the pits will make them oversized to the point that other problems may effect accuracy since many original guns were over "nominal" bore size when new.

Dan


 
Dogmann 
36 Cal.
Posts: 69
Dogmann
08-11-12 10:35 AM - Post#1177707    

    In response to Dan Phariss

If I have a few spots of pitting and some light surface rust in a few areas - will the 000wool get the rust off? I also heard.... no dont laugh.... Using good old Coca Cola will eat the rust off the surface of a barrel. Anyone tried that?

 
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