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Login Name Post: Uberti Walker, Diameter & load?        (Topic#241861)
Y2K 
32 Cal.
Posts: 25
12-28-09 01:49 PM - Post#801975    


Soon to be getting a Uberti copy of the Colt Walker.

What diameter bore are they .427?

Reccomended load?


Should I use FFG or FFFG?

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
12-28-09 02:06 PM - Post#801979    

    In response to Y2K

I use a Walker in competitions with two different black powder clubs. I use a 52 grain charge of 3Fg Goex, a pre-lubed wonder-wad, and a .454 Hornady ball. Remington #10 caps on the Uberti nipples that came with the gun. Shaves just enough lead to say it's a shave on the balls. This load is extremely accurate and I have shot torso-sized gongs with it out to 135 yards.

Enjoy yours! One thing that you'll notice with the Walker is that the balls are going so fast that they cut clean round holes through the paper targets, unlike almost every other bp revolver out there except for the big Dragoons! Nice tight groups too! Just remember to practice holding the thing up so your groups don't look like a shotgun pattern

Dave

 
Rikeman 
40 Cal.
Posts: 231
Rikeman
12-29-09 12:21 AM - Post#802207    

    In response to Y2K

My set up is the same as Smokin with the exception that I use an even 55grains. The walker is simply an awsome gun!

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
12-29-09 06:33 AM - Post#802238    

    In response to Rikeman

  • Rikeman Said:
My set up is the same as Smokin with the exception that I use an even 55grains. The walker is simply an awsome gun!



Hey Rikeman Happy New Year to You & Yours! Enjoy the Walker! You've had yours for a while now, right? Do you have a loading stand for yours? I have (3) stands so far for me and the son.

Dave

 
GoodCheer 
Cannon
Posts: 6059
GoodCheer
12-30-09 07:15 AM - Post#802669    

    In response to smokin .50

My favorite in the Walker is a conical to duplicate the orginal service load. It's an excellent combination of diameter, weight and energy.

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
12-30-09 07:20 AM - Post#802670    

    In response to GoodCheer

  • GoodCheer Said:
My favorite in the Walker is a conical to duplicate the orginal service load. It's an excellent combination of diameter, weight and energy.



Is it commercially available or do you make your own? I'd be interested to try some. Let me know please, and THANKS!

Dave

 
GoodCheer 
Cannon
Posts: 6059
GoodCheer
12-30-09 08:32 AM - Post#802701    

    In response to smokin .50

There's bound to be some commercially available somewhere. But...
Most folks shoot round ball because it is a self aligning shape and for that reason gives them better accuracy. To get decent accuracy you will probably have to go through the steps to fit the projectile to your revolver. Think of the way a maxiball works. Pretty much the same thing.
My way of accomplishing this is to measure the chamber diameter and choose an appropriate diameter/length mold. Then, size soft lead bullets to just fit in the chambers after being they're fouled, the front of the bullet left large to be sheared at loading.
However, there are molds available that are made to let you do this without going through the sizing step. NEI in El Paso, TX has some really nice ones. I just have to hinky up my own 'cause there's so many things to tinker with.
By the way, Lymans old 45266 mold has a big bevel base, adequate lube grooves and a nose that's a perfect fit for most loading lever rams. It doesn't need sizing to use. We've been using it in 44's for twenty years with excellent results. It's only down falling is on revolvers with a small clearance for rotating through the cut-out and getting under the ram. For this reason it will not work in most 1851's, like my Sheriff's Model (heavy sigh). But, on most of the larger revolvers it's good because the original big cut-out design has been duplicated. And, like with round ball, because of the big bevel base it doesn't seem to care much about fouling from previous shots.
Well, now I "talked your ear off". Do you have a lead pot? That 45266 would probably just be the thing for you and better than what you might buy pre-made. And, better than the cap & ball design sold by Lee.

 
mykeal 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2147
mykeal
12-30-09 09:02 AM - Post#802719    

    In response to Y2K

My 2007 Uberti Walker has .449 diameter chamber mouths with .438 lands and .453 grooves. This is not, of course, ideal, but it's close.

It shoots a .457 round ball very well with 50 gr of fffg real black and a lubed felt overpowder wad; this is my normal load. However, a .454 ball works just as well, and I can't shoot well enough to tell the difference between 50 and 52 grains of powder, so Dave's load is probably a bit better.

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
12-30-09 03:27 PM - Post#802836    

    In response to GoodCheer

Thanks for the info! I don't cast, but friends of mine do, so maybe I'll try to find the mold and we can both have fun!

Dave

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
12-30-09 04:01 PM - Post#802848    

    In response to mykeal

Never miked my guns...I'll have to get around "toit" some day, but I bet mine is like yours (Walker).

The extra couple of grains put me into the 90's scoring-wise (on that tough B-19 Target yet). I've tried up to 60 (without the wonder-wad--no room for it!) and the accuracy fell-off considerably. Then I tried 55, and the results were about the same as 50, but with slight improvement (both with the wad). Now I was "on" to something I thought, so I merely split the difference and found the "Sweet Spot" for my revolver. It works-out to about 13% under the max charge of 60 grains, and it gets the balls just a little closer to the chamber mouths. No difference in fouling, but the groups are tighter at 25 yards, so I guess it must work? And I saved the step of using a filler under the balls! I'm not shooting at a big registered match, so a 91 average does the trick locally.

Have a great New Year and make smoke when ever you can bear the COLD!

All the best!

Dave

 
mukluk 
32 Cal.
Posts: 45
12-31-09 01:53 PM - Post#803285    

    In response to Y2K

Nothing really new to add, but I figure I'll throw my tuppence in anyway... my standard load is 55gr of Graf's 3F, .454 Hornady ball seated directly on the powder, Crisco over the ball and a CCI #11 magnum cap. I didn't notice much difference between 2F and 3F accuracy wise, but the 3F doesn't foul as bad.

50 yard target shooting two-handed with this load:


 
madcratebuilder 
40 Cal.
Posts: 208
01-01-10 08:00 AM - Post#803514    

    In response to mukluk

My 2nd gen Walker likes a 50grs load with a grease cookie and a .457 rb. I may try some .454's and see what I get.

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
01-01-10 11:27 AM - Post#803604    

    In response to mukluk

  • mukluk Said:
Nothing really new to add, but I figure I'll throw my tuppence in anyway... my standard load is 55gr of Graf's 3F, .454 Hornady ball seated directly on the powder, Crisco over the ball and a CCI #11 magnum cap. I didn't notice much difference between 2F and 3F accuracy wise, but the 3F doesn't foul as bad.

50 yard target shooting two-handed with this load:




That's the infamous B-19 Target, is it not?

Did you use a rest to do this at 50 yards? If not, you must have young eyes, LOL!

Dave

 
mukluk 
32 Cal.
Posts: 45
01-01-10 03:52 PM - Post#803697    

    In response to smokin .50

  • smokin .50 Said:


That's the infamous B-19 Target, is it not?

Did you use a rest to do this at 50 yards? If not, you must have young eyes, LOL!

Dave


It's a B-17 Target, picked up a slew of them a few years back... honestly don't know the difference between the two.

As for my shooting, it was done standing, no support but my two hands... a nice sunny and windless day did help. Another thing that hepled is the fact I opened up the notch in the hammer a tad so I can actually see&use the sights

My eyes are only 32 years old, but without spectacles I can't see anything clearly past my elbows

 
R.M. 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1092
R.M.
01-01-10 06:26 PM - Post#803751    

    In response to mukluk

The B-17 is the ISSF 50 meter target, and the B-19 is the 50 yard target. They use them for free pistol, CF/Sport, and Standard Pistol. There are other uses, but these are the main purpose for them.

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
01-01-10 06:58 PM - Post#803760    

    In response to R.M.

We use the B-19 for NRA Muzzle Loader Qualification Matches: 25 yards pistol, 25-50-100 yards rifle! The 10-X ring is about the size of a half-dollar, and the outside scoring ring yields you a single point instead of 5 points!

It ain't easy for sure!

Dave

 
Rikeman 
40 Cal.
Posts: 231
Rikeman
01-01-10 10:37 PM - Post#803860    

    In response to smokin .50

  • smokin .50 Said:
  • Rikeman Said:
My set up is the same as Smokin with the exception that I use an even 55grains. The walker is simply an awsome gun!



Hey Rikeman Happy New Year to You & Yours! Enjoy the Walker! You've had yours for a while now, right? Do you have a loading stand for yours? I have (3) stands so far for me and the son.

Dave



Happy new years to you and yours as well! I made my own stand for my Walker. It makes for a much easier loading experience! I own quite a few modern guns and a few other black powder weapons.....nothing is as much fun as my walker!


 
Y2K 
32 Cal.
Posts: 25
01-02-10 01:54 PM - Post#804059    

    In response to Rikeman

Do I just seat the ball on top of powder or should I use a small card/wad?

And do I have to patch the bullets whether round ball or conical?

I use Bees Wax will this be OK?

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 26175
Zonie
01-02-10 03:00 PM - Post#804074    

    In response to Y2K

Cap and Ball revolvers do not use patches on their bullets or balls.
The ball/bullet is larger than the chamber diameter before it is rammed into the chamber.

Ramming it into the chamber cuts off a thin ring of lead, sizing the outside to fit tightly in the chamber.

Because the ball/bullet is sheared to size by the chamber mouth, long bullets are very difficult to load. A roundball on the other hand will have very little material removed in the loading process so it is much easier to do with much less wear and tear on the loading lever.

Round balls usually shoot more accurately than bullets.

You can use fiber wads between the powder and the ball/bullet and they often seem to improve accuracy but they are another cost to be added to each load so, if you are just plinking you would be money ahead by just loading without the card wad.
Just Jim...



 
Tom-ADC 
36 Cal.
Posts: 97
Tom-ADC
01-02-10 03:16 PM - Post#804083    

    In response to Rikeman

I use this stand for everything but my Walker, if I would trim the piece the barrel is resting against on the bottom it would work with my Walker, I use my proto-type for it. I haven't had my Walker that long but after reading the 50 gr plus load data I feel like a chicken, type to up the annie.
Oh the piece of the stand next to the loading lever is removable, I do have plans for free if intersted, just drop me a PM with you email address.



 
mukluk 
32 Cal.
Posts: 45
01-02-10 08:30 PM - Post#804223    

    In response to Y2K

  • Y2K Said:
Do I just seat the ball on top of powder or should I use a small card/wad?

I use Bees Wax will this be OK?


An overpowder card or wad isn't really necessary... with a caveat: Revolvers tend to give their best accuracy when the ball is seated at or close to the end of the chamber. What you don't want is for there to be any air space between the powder charge and the ball... you need to either firmly seat the ball down on the powder or use a filler of some sort (wad, cream of wheat, cornmeal, grease cookie, etc) with the ball firmly seated on the filler.

You'll need to experiment with your particular pistol when you get it to see what it shoots best regarding ball size, powder type&charge weight, ball seating depth, filler or no filler, type&quantity of lube, type of percussion cap, etc.

As for the Bees Wax, it tends to be a bit too stiff by itself for a lube... it's usually recommended to mix it with some other type of natural lube to soften it up (olive oil is commonly used).

 
GoodCheer 
Cannon
Posts: 6059
GoodCheer
01-03-10 08:27 AM - Post#804351    

    In response to Zonie

"Because the ball/bullet is sheared to size by the chamber mouth, long bullets are very difficult to load. A roundball on the other hand will have very little material removed in the loading process so it is much easier to do with much less wear and tear on the loading lever."

A properly sized bullet has a base diameter that slips into the chamber (think maxiball). The forward contact area shears on the chamber mouth the same as with a round ball. Apologies if that was not adequately explained in my previous post.
An incorrect bullet will be far worse than an incorrect ball. A bullet not matched to the revolver will be misaligned and deformed at loading.
Properly fashioned a bullet matches the chamber that receives it, naturally receives alignment from the chamber, does not require excessive pressure to be seated in the chamber and thus will provide uniformity from shot to shot.
As previously mentioned, round ball is self aligning. Good results are unlikely if bullets are used that are not self aligning. The back end of the ball is spherical. The bottom of the bullet is flat. If the bullet is misaligned the flat back end becomes a cocked tiller and the boat turns. If all is done properly then accuracy is the result.

Edited by GoodCheer on 01-03-10 08:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 26175
Zonie
01-03-10 02:29 PM - Post#804475    

    In response to GoodCheer

I totally agree that a misaligned bullet presents another problem that makes matters worse.

The increased pressure required for loading a bullet comes not just from the possible misalignment.

A .454 diameter roundball when loaded into a .449 diameter chamber (Uberti 1860 Colt ref.) has a length of shear (the length of the material that will be sheared off) of .067, so, it isn't unrealistic to say the chamber mouth will have to shear thru a .067 thick lead plate. (Yes, I realize that this shearing requires less force than actually piercing thru a plate, but the same rules apply).

A cylindrical bullet on the other hand has a length of shear many times that thickness consequently the "thickness" of the material that needs to be sheared thru is greater than that of the typical lead ball.

As a piercing die designer will tell us, this increase in thickness or length of cut results in higher forces proportional to the thickness of the material being removed.

The net result is a bullet requires more force to load than a roundball.
Just Jim...



Edited by Zonie on 01-03-10 02:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
01-03-10 02:53 PM - Post#804488    

    In response to GoodCheer

I'll just add my and say that any bullet (especially a slightly mis-aligned one) that grabs the chamber at or near the chamber mouth ONLY and not further down runs the chance of entering the forcing cone at an angle that will result in inferior accuracy, OR, could possibly, under the right circumstances (such as the recoil of a 50-60 grain rifle charge) become partially dislodged and make the revolver inoperable or unsafe.

This is why I recommend to only use round balls on this Forum--because you never know who you're really dealing with or how much actual experience they have.

That all being said, if you're trained in-person by someone who's an expert with conicals in revolvers, then by all means have fun with them.

Dave

 
GoodCheer 
Cannon
Posts: 6059
GoodCheer
01-03-10 07:49 PM - Post#804623    

    In response to smokin .50

LOL...I have been trained by 35 years of making bullets for revolvers. When I was young making our own was how we managed to afford to go shooting.

I'm gonna try to paint that word picture one more time.
For the sake of discussion I just miked the front band on my Walker bullet. The band is 0.081" thick. That sets down on top of the chamber mouth when the rest of the bullet has been slipped into the chamber. Because the diameter of the front band is closely fitted to the dimensions of the chambers it swedges into the chamber mouth just barely shaving any lead. The bullet below the leading band is just less than the chamber diameter. Alignment is total. The ogive matches the ram to avoid distortion. This is a matter of the projectile being fashioned for accuracy just as you would do for any revolver. The load will not shift with recoil. Nor will it become misaligned. On the contrary, the front of the bullet will be engaging the rifling as the obdurated base leaves the chamber.
Revolvers is revolvers. Some just don't need brass. The Walker was intentionally designed to take advantage of conicals as the service load. And like any revolver for best results you have to use a projectile correctly fashioned for that piece.
I bother to make the Walker bullets because I also enjoy that aspect of the hobby. If you don't like doing things like that, best you use round ball.

 
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