Kenneth
32 Cal.
Posts: 27
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In response to widget350
Or at least that you're going to do it regardless of the recommendations of others...
Not that I fault you. I'd have a hard time parting with $2k+ for a custom job.
Good point. I just don't have enough information either way yet, and the nay sayers have good points too but no direct experience with this gun. Those that have direct experience with MVT affirm their products are ok, but to know what you are buying and expect to work on it to make it serviceable. I'm ok with that. It is a double flint shotgun we're talking about here, and I'm ok with spending money on premium kits. I'm rather fond of the early 18th century fur trapper era: ever priced a kit from The Hawken Shop? [See: http://www.thehawkenshop.com/] There, you pay a premium price for a kit in which you supply almost all of the work.
Kenneth
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Jasseji
36 Cal.
Posts: 76
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In response to Kenneth
a big German company, which is importing guns from MVT and Loyalist suppliers (apart from Pedersoli, Ardesa and others of course) is proofing the barrels before sale as German Law prohibits sale of unproofed ones
They are normally dealing with Modern Hunting Guns and Stuff, so i'd assume they got their bit of experience (big shop with lots of Stores around Germany)
As per them, none of the indian stuff failed the proofing so far and one of the local store owners claims to have good hunting results with an Indian-Made Musket and prefers it over his in-line drilling just for the kick of fun in such hunting
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 Pete D.
45 Cal.
Posts: 552
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In response to ndnchf
A bit of a hijack here.
ndnchf: I gave the wood and metal an aged finish....
I'd like to try that. How did you go about it?
Pictures? Maybe PM me so as not to continue off topic.
Pete
| "Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." R. Ruark |
Edited by Pete D. on 11-10-09 05:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Kenneth
32 Cal.
Posts: 27
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In response to Jasseji
Thanks for the info Jesseji, very good information. That affirms my impression of MVT from those who have contributed to this thread and from the information I have been able to collect from other research about MVT. Those who have direct experience with them seem to like their products ok.
Kenneth
[edit....]
As per them, none of the indian stuff failed the proofing so far and one of the local store owners claims to have good hunting results with an Indian-Made Musket and prefers it over his in-line drilling just for the kick of fun in such hunting
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David Oliver
36 Cal.
Posts: 55
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In response to Kenneth
I have 2 MVT muskets (I live 2 hours away)as others have said they are not custom jobs but they are more than serviceable. I have the first Ketland Fusil that came into the US and at 6.25 lbs it is lighter than most other .62 cal customs I have felt. The biggest issue I see is there is quite a variation in each regarding fit and trigger pull. The stocks are made of teak which adds to weight and the barrels are a bit shiny (as is the finish). There is too much wood in most of the guns as well (not true for the Ketland).
Since I go there to purchase I select the one I want and have had to do little except polishing to make the locks better (these locks are hand made). Most folks don't have that luxury. Pete will make it right if you do not like the one you get. I have seen the DB shotgun in person (first one he got) and it was pretty nice.
With regards to safety, the Ughars have been making Flintlocks for longer than the US has been in existence. The factory looks more like a computer manufacturing facility than a machine shop and some will give the impression that they are made in a shack which is far from the truth. Granted, the initial quality could be better but the intent is to produce the item as it would have been when mass produced (the largest sellers are Besses and Charlvilles).
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Captain Outwater
36 Cal.
Posts: 96
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In response to Kenneth
The best part of Middlesex trading is that they have excellent customer service. If you have a problem with the lock, return the whole lock and they will fix or replace it. I think they have a lifetime guarentee as well.
The quality is only so so- the wood is not walnut but teak and can be brittle,and the metal wood fit is just OK, but they are cheaper by half than higher quality arms.
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ndnchf
40 Cal.
Posts: 176
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In response to Pete D.
I've put a few photos here:
MVTC 1816 Springfield
Not wanting to hijack this thread, I'll PM you some particulars on the refinishing.
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tg
Cannon
Posts: 7847
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In response to ndnchf
I suspect that it is human nature to not admit the full extent of dissapointment in a product that was purchased against most imput from others also the length of time one has been envolved in this sport and ability to see the good and bad points of a given gun are to be considered, I hope that the Indian gun woeks well and provides the solution to your needs if you purchase one, do share the work envolved to make it "better" there will no doubt be more folks looking this direction in the future and details from one who has traveled that path will be something they may need and appreciate.The real possible down side to these guns is that they will take up a percentage of the market share and make it harder on the suppliers/builders of quality/PC offerings made here in the USA, they have been fighting an uphill battle for a long time allready.
| The smoke's blown out the vent till there is no more,then a charge of powder I pour, patch&ball go down the bore, shoulder the gun and fire some more |
Edited by tg on 11-10-09 05:46 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Muskeg Stomper
40 Cal.
Posts: 452
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In response to Jasseji
a big German company, which is importing guns from MVT and Loyalist suppliers (apart from Pedersoli, Ardesa and others of course) is proofing the barrels before sale as German Law prohibits sale of unproofed ones
They are normally dealing with Modern Hunting Guns and Stuff, so i'd assume they got their bit of experience (big shop with lots of Stores around Germany)
As per them, none of the indian stuff failed the proofing so far and one of the local store owners claims to have good hunting results with an Indian-Made Musket and prefers it over his in-line drilling just for the kick of fun in such hunting
Not trying to change anyone's mind on the issue of Indian built guns in general since we all have real strong opinions either for or against them. I believe that it's Dan Phariss who has previously posted some documentation on tubing barrels that gave me pause enough to research further on those barrels, particularly the Indian made ones. Now to hear that the barrels are passing proofing requirements in Germany does my heart good. Ask any GI who has had guns there...German proof requirements are quite stringent.
I'm one of the "FOR" voters but as others have said, they take some work to get them where most would want them to be. I consider them an "in the white" kit and at a price cheaper than many of those. The early trade musket that I have from them is a lot of fun and I enjoyed (re)building it.
The folks at MVTC are good people. I'd buy another from them.
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ndnchf
40 Cal.
Posts: 176
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In response to Muskeg Stomper
I agree with MS above. These products are not for everyone. It really depends on what you plan to do with it (hunting, reenacting etc.), whether you like to tinker and refinish and what your skills are. While my MVTC 1816 Springfield is not as well finished as the Pedersoli version, after my refinishing and a few little changes, I'm quite satisfied with it for my purpose - which is reenacting pre-civil war militia and as a early War confederate soldier.
MVTC and other importers offer a variety of unusual muskets and fowlers, not available anywhere else, except custom builders. A lot of folks just can't afford, or don't want to spend 3-4 times the price for a custom gun while trying to feed their family or put kids through college. These products fill a need for SOME people.
To each his own, just be an informed buyer.
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Jasseji
36 Cal.
Posts: 76
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In response to ndnchf
i like pedersoli and what they do myself, granted, i plan on buying a second musket - and it will be a pedersoli one.
As for the indian stuff, i never saw a pistol fitting my era from any of the major producers and i am not as skilled in wood to make my own stock (although i will in the end)
people will buy these indian-made as long as getting a period-correct item from other manufacturers will be impossible or too pricey
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nightwolf1974
40 Cal.
Posts: 122
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In response to Jasseji
i live only 8 miles from MVTC here in Nh, and i've been off and on pondering buying some of thier stuff for 6 years.
some gunshops close to me and them don't trust thier safety. wether they will go into " handgrenade mode" or not, i'm still wondering myself.
if you read thier FAQ page, they will proof-test the guns and stamp the barrel for you for a fee.
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Kenneth
32 Cal.
Posts: 27
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In response to ndnchf
I've put a few photos here:
MVTC 1816 Springfield
Not wanting to hijack this thread, I'll PM you some particulars on the refinishing.
Nice rifle. I look forward to those PMs about refinishing.
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SR James
40 Cal.
Posts: 180
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In response to Kenneth
I handled one at the Tulsa show Saturday. It was not very well made. The locks were very rough and not well fitted, with horrendous trigger pulls. Geometry was poor. I was intially interested in these when they showed up on MVT's website but not after having seen this one. Even re-working it would not have corrected some of it's flaws.
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BobS
32 Cal.
Posts: 5
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In response to Wick Ellerbe
Hello Pards:
I have purchased a Double Barrel Flintlock pistol from Middlesex Village and as has been previously posted, you can read what you can and should expect. I wanted it for a novelty and fully expected to work on it and did when it arrived. I really was not disappointed as to quality of the product or the workmanship. The Customer Service is excellent and I would recommend them. Just mt 2cnts worth.
BobS
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grzrob
45 Cal.
Posts: 915
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In response to BobS
Well.....a couple of weeks ago I shouldered one of these new shotguns. I liked the feel of it so I ordered one. Now anytime you order one of these Indian made guns it is just a finished kit in the white. The first thing I did when I opened mine was to brown the barrels. I could not stand the highly polished barrels! Then I whittled down the
25 pound right trigger pull to around 8 pounds
the left lock was good. The bore is actually 19 Ga (.625 ) not 20Ga ( .615 ) I ordered some 19 Ga wads and went to the range. It took a long time for my first two shots to go off. I was not aware the barrels had patent breeches. Once I got these small cavities dried out It goes off now just fine. In fact I hope to take it Quail hunting next week! Middlesex is a good company to work with. IF you can't do the required touch up work
your self, they will do it for you. Like every body else said these guns are not for everyone.
I will admit right up front that I would not know a quality shotgun if it bit me on the butt! But for my "coarse" tastes I like this little shotgun.
It does not shoot round ball to bad ether!
Loads...
Shot: 65 grains of FFg, 19 Ga wad column 7/8th ounce of shot.
Round ball 65 grains of FFG, .595 18 Thousands patch, pushed in with thumb.
My photo bucket ain't working now or I would put up a picture of my little beastie!
I will post the result of my hunt next week
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surrealpillow
32 Cal.
Posts: 20
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In response to grzrob
IF you can't do the required touch up work
your self, they will do it for you.
what sort of additional touch up work do they offer exactly? like giving it a better stain? I wouldn't mind paying more for them to put a bit more care into it before shipping it, for people like me who are new to muzzle-loading enhancing a gun might be difficult
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Jasseji
36 Cal.
Posts: 76
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In response to surrealpillow
and take you away the whole fun in finishing it as you would like it to be ?
i'd never dream about that :P
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Rock Island
40 Cal.
Posts: 112
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In response to Kenneth
I own a MVT Long Land Bess, have shot a few hundred rounds since getting it last year and I can report no problems at all. The gun looks good, shoots well, and with accuracy that surprised me . I have seen some very nasty looking "guns" come out of India in the past and I was not expecting much when I got the Bess, I was prepared to ship it right back if it looked bad out of the box. It likes a .735 ball, 75 grains of FG and a .15 patch ( give or take) I ran out of proper patches so I substituted a round .30 cotton weave cleaning patch from my M1 Garands cleaning kit and slathered it in bore butter, and it worked very well. I am hitting a target the size of a mans head at 75-80 yards 8 times out of ten, best I can do with a gun that lacks proper sites. I like the Bess well enough that I cast another 600 musket balls for it over the last few weekends, ordered 20 more pounds of powder from my online supplier, and am even now waiting for MVT to get back to me about a ships carbine that caught my eye. Prior to this my flinters mostly came from Pedersoli in Italy or CVA in the old days. The Pedersoli 1816 Harpers Ferry is a great gun, but it looks to good, it looks like the product of a modern high tech factory, everything is perfect, set it next to one of my modern shooters and the build quality looks the same. The MVT has a slight hand made look to it, as if old world methods were used in it's production, probably weren't, but they did a good job of faking it.
I can't speak for the shotgun as I do not own one, but I have been pleased with what I have gotten from this company so far.
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12-22-09 07:28 AM - 