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Login Name Post: Blown Patches        (Topic#229721)
Trapper 
40 Cal.
Posts: 195
01-24-09 03:19 PM - Post#669418    


I built a 54 cal about a year ago, probably have 1000 rounds through her. I have run steel wool down the barrel about 200 times.Here's the problem.... I've noticed in the freshly fallen snow that my patches have holes in them around where the ball and patch touch the rifling. I'm using Walmart pillow ticking, measured at .020....washed and dried and a 4:1 ballistol lube. I tried some pillow ticking from quilt store the lady said her's was a tighter weave. Gave it a try.. didn't blow as bad but still had small holes.I measured the wallmart pillow ticking again this morning and it was .020 I've coned the barrel and this combo does not require a short starter. At 25 yrds the groups off hand are 1 inch apart. Do I need thicker patching? A friend suggested that I use cotton drill as it is a tighter weave. I've never had this problem before. Help guys!!!!
Trapper

 
Huntin Dawg 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4685
Huntin Dawg
01-24-09 03:22 PM - Post#669420    

    In response to Trapper

What is your powder type/charge? Ball diameter? Have you tried a lubed felt wad?

HD
Skin that one Pilgrim and I'll get you another!!


 
Trapper 
40 Cal.
Posts: 195
01-24-09 03:33 PM - Post#669426    

    In response to Huntin Dawg

70 gr ffg and a 530 rb. No I have not tried a felt wad. I've never had to use them before.

 
Swampy 
Cannon
Posts: 15602
Swampy
01-24-09 03:38 PM - Post#669429    

    In response to Trapper

Man that don't sound right at all. I use heavier charges of 3F and never had that thick of a patch fail that I know off anyway.


 
runnball 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1647
runnball
01-24-09 04:08 PM - Post#669440    

    In response to Trapper

Try a few spit patches. If blow-by is what is doing it they will usually fix the problem. If they still fail your lands are still too sharp. If that is the case I would suggest lapping the barrel to break the sharp edges on your lands.

 
Trapper 
40 Cal.
Posts: 195
01-24-09 04:27 PM - Post#669446    

    In response to runnball

OK, how do you lap a round ball use a patch with lapping compound?

 
paulvallandigham 
Passed On
Posts: 17538
paulvallandigham
01-24-09 04:58 PM - Post#669459    

    In response to Trapper

I suspect the crown of your muzzle is too sharp, and that the holes you are seeing begin with the cuts occurring when you seat the PRB in the muzzle.

Polish that crown smoother, and round it. You should not feel any sharp points on the front of the lands when you run your little finger in the barrel, and turn it around.

DON'T do any more " polishing " with that steel wool. You have done enough! Any burrs that may have been left on the lands should be long gone by now.

Finally, without knowing your bore diameter to the thousandth of an inch( .540"?) its impossible to say whether the choice of patching is too thick for your ball-patch combination. Have you tried .015, and .018" thick patching with that ball and barrel??? If so, what do you find happening with those patches?? This can be just a problem arising out of using too thick a patch. ( But I don't think so- at least not all of the problem.)

 
Trapper 
40 Cal.
Posts: 195
01-24-09 05:33 PM - Post#669485    

    In response to paulvallandigham

Paul, thanks for the info but the muzzle is coned After I cone a muzzle I always run steel wool over the coning to get rid of any burrs. Any suggestions on how to mike the bore?

 
ohio ramrod 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5759
01-24-09 05:54 PM - Post#669495    

    In response to Trapper

You might try what I do. Use a dry patch between powder and lubed patch. It works like a felt wad but is easier to load and cheaper. I started using them years ago in my target rifle to prevent the lube from soaking into the powder since I use a heavily lubed patch. It works for me!

 
smokehouseman 
40 Cal.
Posts: 369
01-24-09 07:15 PM - Post#669535    

    In response to Trapper

I know the feeling Trapper I dealt with this week as well. With a new .58 GM barrel when it started blowing the patches I thought it might be the crown so I coned the barrel but was still coming up with blown patches. I kept the same amount of powder (80 grains) and used different combinations of patches till I came up with the right combination. I my case I had to go with the combination the was the tightest but would still allow me to get the ball down without using a hammer, that was .025 thickness patch with a .562 round ball. Now all I've got to do is to go out and find the correct thickness material and give it a try. I did not try the wad behind the patch because I don't want to have to do that step as my final or correct load. Good luck to you.

 
marmotslayer 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4487
01-24-09 09:15 PM - Post#669592    

    In response to paulvallandigham

  • Quote:
DON'T do any more " polishing " with that steel wool. You have done enough! Any burrs that may have been left on the lands should be long gone by now.




Then again, maybe not! given that he said:

  • Quote:
I've coned the barrel and this combo does not require a short starter



Maybe you should try something more aggressive than steel wool. Try working the full length of the barrel for about 200 strokes with a tight patch and some JB bore paste. Change the patch about every 20 strokes.

 
40 Flint 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1527
40 Flint
01-24-09 10:42 PM - Post#669633    

    In response to Trapper

Trapper, suggest increasing to .535 ball and keeping all other paramaters the same.

TC

 
Trapper 
40 Cal.
Posts: 195
01-25-09 07:59 AM - Post#669738    

    In response to marmotslayer

I just put .030 cotton flannel cloth on the cleaning jag and ran it up and down the bore about 10 times. You can really see the rifling in that patch, very distinct lands and grooves. Very sharp corners on the inner corners of the grooves. Afterwards, I held the cleaning patch up to the light and tried pulling it apart to see if there were any cut marks in the patch, none that I can see. 70gr of ffg does not seem like it would burn up a patch. I used that load for the 45 cal as a hunting load and the patches weren't blowing holes in the edges. This is interesting????

 
rubincam 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2697
01-25-09 09:40 AM - Post#669790    

    In response to Trapper

-----I know a guy that took his Grandmothers mattress when she died and cut it into patches-----

 
John L. Hinnant 
45 Cal.
Posts: 711
01-25-09 06:21 PM - Post#670054    

    In response to Trapper

Good Evening Trapper,

"I feel your pain." I have a mystery barrel in 50 caliber like yours, with some 2000 rounds through it. After trying everything that has already been suggested, the only thing that worked for me was to use some of the old OX-YOKE pre-lubricated felt over wads on top of the powder.

For whatever reason all blow-by ceased. Even with 2000 rounds through the barrel, the felt overwads are still necessary today.

I cannot explain it.

I do strongly urge you not to do any more lapping at this time. I have seen many a barrel ruined by over lapping

See if you locate a nearby business that cleans and blocks felt hats. They might have some trimmimng you can get fo experimentation. It would not hurt to even try a double felt wad. I have.


Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

Liberal/socialist Politicians LIE!!! USA FREEDOMS DIE!!!!

 
Musketman 
Passed On
Posts: 10652
01-26-09 10:39 AM - Post#670322    

    In response to rubincam

  • rubincam Said:
-----I know a guy that took his Grandmothers mattress when she died and cut it into patches-----



How hard up for pillow ticking would someone have to be to do this???

Hope he didn't use spit as a lube, I just gave myself the heebe-jeebe's thinking about a strip of that patching hanging out of his mouth getting wet.


 
Pork Chop 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2199
Pork Chop
01-26-09 09:12 PM - Post#670651    

    In response to Musketman

Musketman, you said it, but we were all thinking it. Ick!!

 
RC 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5109
RC
01-26-09 09:34 PM - Post#670662    

    In response to Musketman

almost as bad as that mattress thing is MM's brain ..only God may know where that's been ,,,but it had ta be a helluva trip!
Anybody Seen AMERICA Lately?


 
Trapper 
40 Cal.
Posts: 195
02-01-09 03:46 PM - Post#673867    

    In response to smokehouseman

Hazzah Hazzah, I found a patch ball combo that isn't leaving holes in the patch. A friend at the club suggested that I try cotton drill cloth .018 that he bought at Joanne's Fabric. It looked like a tighter weave. Soaked some patches with 4:1 ballistol mix, 70 gr ffg and a 530 roundball.......Yureeka 4 balls into one hole at 25 yrds and printing dead on. I tore out the x ring. Now, iffin I could only shoot that good offhand!!!!

 
paulvallandigham 
Passed On
Posts: 17538
paulvallandigham
02-01-09 03:56 PM - Post#673878    

    In response to Trapper

Trapper. Check those patches, anyway. If your barrel was cutting patches before, it may still be doing so. Find the source of the cutting, and remove it.

 
Dan Phariss 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4622
Dan Phariss
02-02-09 09:33 AM - Post#674222    

    In response to Trapper

  • Trapper Said:
I built a 54 cal about a year ago, probably have 1000 rounds through her. I have run steel wool down the barrel about 200 times.Here's the problem.... I've noticed in the freshly fallen snow that my patches have holes in them around where the ball and patch touch the rifling. I'm using Walmart pillow ticking, measured at .020....washed and dried and a 4:1 ballistol lube. I tried some pillow ticking from quilt store the lady said her's was a tighter weave. Gave it a try.. didn't blow as bad but still had small holes.I measured the wallmart pillow ticking again this morning and it was .020 I've coned the barrel and this combo does not require a short starter. At 25 yrds the groups off hand are 1 inch apart. Do I need thicker patching? A friend suggested that I use cotton drill as it is a tighter weave. I've never had this problem before. Help guys!!!!
Trapper



The small holes are likely from a bad crown.
Take a piece of patching 4"x 6-10" and lube a spot with you patch lube. Seat it flush then use the excess to pull the ball back out. If you have patch damage, even just abrasion its the crown.
crowns need to be carefully done and I like to do 2-3 different angles. It need not be deep and a bad deep crown is just as bad as a bad shallow one.
E-mail sent.
Dan

 
Trapper 
40 Cal.
Posts: 195
02-03-09 06:18 PM - Post#675141    

    In response to paulvallandigham

I checked all 20 patches and not one was cut...not even a nick!!!!!One happy Trapper

 
paulvallandigham 
Passed On
Posts: 17538
paulvallandigham
02-03-09 07:30 PM - Post#675171    

    In response to Trapper

Always check your spent patches. If they begin to show burning, find out what is different from what you have been doing. Its not a surprise to find that .018 Pocket drill hold up better than .015" pillow ticking. Generally, pocket drill will have more, and tighter threads to the inch, than does pillow ticking.

If the new patching is working for you, use it.

Move those targets back to 50 yards and shoot some groups. Let us know how it shoots at that distance. Generally, if you have a load combination that shoots well at 50 yards, the same components can be used for longer ranges, but with more powder.

People go from 70 grains FFFg powder to 80 grains FFFg powder for their 100 yd loads. Some guns require more velocity to group better, and some guns work better shooting FFg instead of FFFg powder. The only way to know what you gun shoots well is by testing. Now that you have solved the patch problem I think you will be happy as you do the testing at 50, and 100 yds.

 
Kelhammer 
32 Cal.
Posts: 49
Kelhammer
02-05-09 03:41 PM - Post#675977    

    In response to Trapper

In my own experience, cotton drill is tougher than the pillow ticking. From a clean barrel, using pillow ticking, I could get about 5 shots down range before blowing a patch. The fouling becomes to rough, I'm guessing? Using a cotton drill patch, I can shoot dozens of rounds, with no swabbing, and not blow a patch. Using plain Murphy's OS as a lube.

 
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