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Login Name Post: Pedersoli Charles Moore        (Topic#229259)
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-13-09 02:27 PM - Post#663948    


I shot my new Pedersoli Charles Moore yesterday and it shoots exactly 12 inches high at 25 yards.
The offhand group was outstanding but a foot high is not acceptable.

Does anyone know who carries a replacement front sight for the pistol? I need to have the pistol ready to go in less than 30 days.

My gunsmith can raise the front sight height by silver soldering, but I really hate to do this, but it may the last resort.

Thanks

RDE

 
Ghettogun 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2950
01-13-09 03:28 PM - Post#663970    

    In response to Richard Eames

File the rear sight groove?

 
Bakeoven Bill 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1625
Bakeoven Bill
01-13-09 03:35 PM - Post#663975    

    In response to Ghettogun

Damn GG beat me to it, but, yeah, why not just file down the rear sight?

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-13-09 04:28 PM - Post#664004    

    In response to Bakeoven Bill

Filing down the rear sight was my initial thought.
The rear sight height looked kind of small for filing, so after 5 shots I quit.

I cleaned the pistol last night and stopped at the gunsmith on the way home today. His recommendation was call Pedersoli to see if I can get a replacement front sight. I did this after the gunsmith stop and I will not bore you with the details, but I am very pleased with the Pedersoli distributors response and what he is going to do over the weekend to help.

My gunsmith did not recommend filing on the rear sight, his recommendation is to raise the front and file as needed. He is very leary of filing down the back sight due to it's short height.

When I got home I measured the rear sight, from the top of the rear sight to the barrel flat is 0.248. That is less than a 1/4 inch, not much metal to remove and then you have to lower the "v" notch.

Either raising the front or a taller front sight seems to be the way to go.

I appreciate the help, but with such a short height of the back sight, I hate to start removing metal.

My wife's recommendation was, why not aim at the bottom of the paper, that should work she said.

RDE



 
Bakeoven Bill 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1625
Bakeoven Bill
01-13-09 05:38 PM - Post#664043    

    In response to Richard Eames

The Moore must use a different rear sight than my LePage. Does it mount on the barrel? Glad you got a fix, but now what are you going to tell your wife? Gee honey you're right but....


 
Greg Lohn 
40 Cal.
Posts: 183
01-13-09 08:36 PM - Post#664163    

    In response to Richard Eames

Just a couple of thoughts-
Raise the target 12 inches or maybe lower the powder charge
Do you have a load that you "Have To" use or due to time ,you are just going for one load?

 
DanChamberlain 
45 Cal.
Posts: 612
01-13-09 09:08 PM - Post#664182    

    In response to Greg Lohn

At that range, lowering the powder charge will probably elevate the ball strike even more. To lower the ball strike, you want to increase the velocity to reduce in-bore time.

What caliber are you shooting? What charge?

Dan

Edited by DanChamberlain on 01-13-09 09:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-14-09 07:46 AM - Post#664287    

    In response to Greg Lohn

I have time to try different loads, but at 25 yards, I don't think that is going to help much.

RDE

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-14-09 08:00 AM - Post#664289    

    In response to DanChamberlain

It's a 45. The manual suggested 20 grains with a maximum of 30 grains.

I used 20 grains and stopped after 5 shots since it was shooting so high.

Thanks

RDE

 
DanChamberlain 
45 Cal.
Posts: 612
01-14-09 08:11 AM - Post#664292    

    In response to Richard Eames

You probably won't lower it 12 inches, but you'd be surprised how much effect the additional 20 grains might make. Still, 30 grains may not give you the best accuracy.

Dan

 
paulvallandigham 
Passed On
Posts: 17538
paulvallandigham
01-14-09 10:38 AM - Post#664364    

    In response to Richard Eames

Richard: ONe problem with replicas is that they mimic to the thousandths of an inch the actual sight heights of original guns. However, they don't tell shooters that the originals guns were sighted to hit on at 75 yards--- THAT'S RIGHT ---- 75 yards! Since most revolvers were issued to cavalry soldiers, they were trained to begin shooting at the longer range holding on the stomach of a charging cavalryman. As the range closed, the POI would rise, but there would be still enough torso to allow a shot aimed at the belt buckle( aim small, miss small) to put a mortal wound on the charging enemy soldier. The same kind of training was also given to officers fighting on foot with handgun and saber. Although I have not found an explanation for why sights were set to shoot high, I believe that officers were the decision makers in buying firearms. Officers also routinely were on horseback, and took positions behind their soldiers, whether the men were on foot, or horseback. The officers had a personal interest in seeing that a round would be fired high, and pass harmlessly over the heads and horses of field officers if it missed the fighting men up forward.

I also believe that is why they were trained to aim for the belt buckle of the nearest enemy , so that the shots WOULD shoot low and straight, to hit the soldier who was the target, or perhaps someone in a rank behind that soldier.

For modern shooters, we very rarely shoot at full sized silhouette targets, much less out at 75 yards! Bullseye targets at 25 yards is much more the norm.

IF some company would be SMART enough to put this information in the box with every gun, and then include a higher front sight with each gun with direction on how it can be substituted for the one in the barrel, The COMPANY might find a serious competitive advantage over other companies, that would increase it profits. HINT!

The problem always seems to be that one of companies being owned or operated by people who ARE not shooters, even of their own products. If they actually would shoot their own guns with other customers at various clubs and public ranges, this kind of feedback would be IMMEDIATE, and better business decisions would be made in marketing, and making the products sold.

Edited by paulvallandigham on 01-14-09 10:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-14-09 12:20 PM - Post#664397    

    In response to paulvallandigham

Mr. Paul

From the Pedersoli Site:

Charles Moore--A faithful reproduction of an English "duelling pistol", originally created by Charles Moore in London, featuring a hook breech barrel, outside chromed and satin finish. The stock is of walnut, checkered and oil finish. Produced with lock and furniture coin finish colour, it is provided with adjustable single set trigger.--

Charles Moore Target Flintlock Model

In one place it's listed as a "dueling pistol" and one place it's listed as a "Target Pistol.

You may have provided some insight at to why it shoots high.

Rational in buying the Charles Moore; I was told that the Charles Moore will pass the inspection for NMLRA shoots for a Kentucky pistol. With the Charles Moore, the adjustable trigger and hooked breeech (ease of cleaning) it makes it a viable pistol for the Kentucky Flintlock Agg and a good backup for the Flintlock Agg.

I talked with the distributor and he said that he has a meeting with Mr. Pedersoli this weekend and he would call me on Monday to see what Mr. Pedersoli has to say to help me with my problem.

I can have the front sight raised by someone whom I trust, just kind of hate to do that to a $600 pistol.

Thanks for your help and insight, I have a feeling you are correct.

RDE


 
cal.43 
40 Cal.
Posts: 140
01-14-09 12:36 PM - Post#664406    

    In response to Richard Eames


Charles Moore .45 rifled 18gn Swiss No.2 might be 3f
sighted for 25m notch 4,7mm high, bead 4,4mm and yes the notch has been filed down

 
Ghettogun 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2950
01-14-09 03:12 PM - Post#664460    

    In response to cal.43

That is the key-you don't file the whole rear sight down , you just file the groove deeper.

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-14-09 04:22 PM - Post#664485    

    In response to Ghettogun

I am really confused now.

My understanding is, you line up the front sight even with the rear sight to get the correct sight picture. For correct aiming, you focus on the front sight, then fire when it is in focus.

What will deepening the notch accomplish if the front sight remains even and centered within the rear sight notch and the height of the rear sight has not been changed?

My book says to raise the rear sight to raise the point of impact, lower the rear sight height to lower the point of impact and the front sight is done in the reverse.

All I can see with your recommendation is the amount of light coming through the rear sight is increased. The point of impact is not changed by enlarging via your recommendation.

In all honesty, have I missed something?


RDE

Edited by Richard Eames on 01-14-09 04:40 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
DanChamberlain 
45 Cal.
Posts: 612
01-14-09 05:12 PM - Post#664500    

    In response to Richard Eames

Richard

Filing the rear notch deeper will work, but you then have to settle your front sight down deeper into the notch as opposed to the more traditional way of aiming, by aligning the sights on the same plane.

I have done this with cap and ball revolvers as well. Rather than mess with the hammer shroud which is there to contain cap debris, I deepen the notch on the shroud and settle the front bead into the notch. Works well as an expedient.

With fixed sights, one has to make allowances for their lack of adaptability. Just as people used "Kentucky" windage, one must consider "Tennessee" elevation.

Dan

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-15-09 12:52 PM - Post#664839    

    In response to DanChamberlain

Dan,

Thanks for the response, Ghettogun's response now make sense.

I tend to live in a black and white world, either stuff works immediatly, or it does not and then Mr. Murphy comes in to action.

My other half's initial response was, to shoot at the bottom of the paper, that should work. I can imagine the next would be, turn the pistol upside down and try that. Cheaper than a new sight. Sigh.

Thanks to all

RDE





 
DanChamberlain 
45 Cal.
Posts: 612
01-15-09 02:02 PM - Post#664862    

    In response to Richard Eames

Richard, a particularly good long range pistol shooter put "witness" marks on his handgun sights for certain distances. For close sights, he depressed the front sight in the rear groove to an engraved line across the rear sight. This took care of everything 50 yards and closer. For longer shots, he had lines scratched across the front sight in graduations. He would elevate the front sight to one of the engraved lines for a particular distance and set the target atop the post. In this way, he had fixed sights - nearly indestructable - that he could use from point blank out to 500 yards.

In case you're wondering, I have made 300 yard shots on 5 gallon bucket sized targets with a .45acp using a similar holdover.

No gun is perfect out of the box. Absolutely none. It would be nice if Pedersoli would adjust their sights for a certain popular distance, I agree.

Dan

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-15-09 04:07 PM - Post#664902    

    In response to DanChamberlain

Dan,

Again thanks for the help.

Your comment on the witness marks made me think a bit and I have a couple of ideas to try with your help.

I was hoping for "instant" gratification/fix by simply replacing the front sight. If Pedersoli can not provide a solution, I will have the front sight raised and then file it down. The two Pedersoli Kentucky pistols that I bought, all I had to do was file the front sight down. The accuracy of the pistols is outstanding.

My pistols scores are slowly going up with the help of Jim/OH, yourself, mykeal, reading here, other reading and a lot of dry firing. My other half gets some credit for her observations when I shoot.

If it was easy, everyone would be a "Master" level shooter.

Thanks for your help.

RDE



 
JimOH 
40 Cal.
Posts: 291
01-15-09 04:13 PM - Post#664905    

    In response to Richard Eames

Hi Richard,

Boy, the picture looks like that is a nice flintlock pistol. Should do you a fine job. 15 to 20 grains of FFFG should do great for 25 and 50 yd. target shooting.
Now your problem. I assume you intend to use this in the "Kentucky flint" matches at Friendship and other places. It should work fine, but you GOT to get this problem fixed right. Some of the suggestions mentioned would do for just fooling around, but for serious target work, the ONLY answer, as I see it, is to get a taller front sight on it. Any "make do" fixes are not consistant enough for serious competition shooting. Do it right so your sight picture is what you need it to be, and not trying to "hold off". I tried doing that with my as issue revolver for a while, and it just is not a good idea.

Just my opinion, hope it helps, see ya, Jim/OH

 
Richard Eames 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3567
01-15-09 04:46 PM - Post#664917    

    In response to JimOH

Jim,

You are 100% correct, it’s a very nice pistol. I am hoping for help from Pedersoli on Monday with what to do with the front sight.

I bought the pistol to shoot in Phoenix which is less than 30 days. I bought it after buying the Pedersoli percussion and flintlock Kentucky pistols. One of the Master shooters recommended the pistol since it can be shot in the Kentucky Flintlock Agg. It will be a good back up pistol in the Flintlock Agg. to my Ten Ring if needed.

Your answer about the front sight is the only correct one. Either Pedersoli can correct the problem or I will have it repaired. What I plan on doing is to shoot it some more to learn the pistol to see what is likes for grouping while I wait on a front sight answer.

If things are not fixed in time for Phoenix, I will go with the Kentucky Flintlock that I have and do as I can.

Oh, I finally shot my percussion Ten Ring, geez, it has gone to the front of the pack for percussion work. The wife’s response to the first target was damn!!!!!!!!!!

In October I shot my Ten Ring flintlock with 7F in the pan, highest score ever

Your opinions, I do value.

Is Lou going next month? If so, I will find him without fail and learn from him also.

Again thank you for your help, it’s appreciated and showing in my scores.

R


 
JimOH 
40 Cal.
Posts: 291
01-16-09 01:42 PM - Post#665343    

    In response to Richard Eames

Hi Richard,

That will be the best for you. If you can't get it fixed by Phoenix, you will have to either shoot it by aiming low (leaves a lot to be desired), or if you shoot the other flintler better than that, shoot it instead of the other one.
Don't think Lou is going this year. At least he hasn't said anything about it, and last year I knew two or three months before. I may see him early next week, if so, I'll ask him. I am sure he will be at Friendship in June.
I did just build me some grips for my "zip gun" (the home built .32 I made from a Crosman Pellet pistol). Made them out of maple from part of the tree that blew down here last Sept. in the reminates of the hurricane. The grips look a little ugly, but seem to give me a better grip, so I'll be evaluateing them. Can always go back to the old ones if necessary, but I think they will work out ok. I shot it last week, when it wasn't too cold, and shot a 97-4x. So, ther is hope.

Take care, see ya, Jim

 
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