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Login Name Post: Patch question?        (Topic#225610)
32 Cal.
Posts: 26
10-09-08 04:20 PM - Post#621739    


I've been shooting for a few years now, and have until now been concentrating on, getting a good rutine while shooting (doing things the same way everytime), casting balls, and having fun while shooting.

now the time has come to start hitting the targets

I'm shooting a Pedersoli J├Ąger Target (Flintlock), using .535 RB and 70gr 2F swiss powder, i'm using a homegrown version of Stumpys Moose snot (Murphys oil soap isnt on sale here, and castor oil is 7$ for 3 ounces).

normally i just use .010 but last time on the range i tried 3 different patch thickness .010, .015 and .020

Targets looked like this (range 50m/55yards, 5 round 'groups')


.020 (flyer caused by hangfire)

obviously i'm not sniper-material, but I think .020 is best, correct?

Patches looke like this



question: why are one side of the paches red/brown

any comments/suggestion please?


Posts: 13739
10-09-08 04:37 PM - Post#621745    

    In response to Leadbyte

Excellent post Leadbyte. The photos really help support your questions.

As I'm reading those patches and comparing with the target, things keep getting better, the thicker your patch. But none of your patches are really right. That would encourage me to stick with the .020 patches for now, but do a little experimenting with your lube. I'd also be kinda careful how you start the ball and patch, using as steady a push on your short starter as possible to help avoid creasing and cutting the patch just as it all goes down in the bore.

It's going to be obvious once you read my answer, but the two sides of the patch look different because one is getting the flame of the powder and other is protected up against the ball.

As for new lubes to try, there are lots out there. Some folks are fond of plain old spit. Others swear by olive oil. Those who prefer pastes usually find that plain old Crisco (hyrdogenated vegetable shortening) works well.

Check back in the Accessories section of the site and find threads about lubes. There's lots of info there.

Huntin Dawg 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4685
Huntin Dawg
10-09-08 04:40 PM - Post#621746    

    In response to Leadbyte

I second Brownbear's recommendations.

I'll add that maybe a felt over-powder wad would solve your problem.

Skin that one Pilgrim and I'll get you another!!

Passed On
Posts: 17538
10-09-08 07:04 PM - Post#621800    

    In response to Leadbyte

The last thing you want to see is torn patches. Check the crown of your muzzle to see if you have a sharp edge tearing the patch as you start it into the barrel. Polish the crown to get rid of that sharp edge. Stick with the .20 for now, although many members herar speak highly of using a .530 RB and a .018" patching material. I do think that when you get that much powder in the barrel you need some kind of OP wad, or filler between the ball and powder to prevent the heat from burning your patches, and the expanding gases from cutting the patches. If your crown is in good shape and is not cutting the patch, then it has to be gases that are cutting these patches, and the OP wad or filler is the answer. Using an OP wad will reduce the sDV for successful shots, and give you much tighter groups.

Posts: 22964
10-09-08 08:04 PM - Post#621831    

    In response to Leadbyte

Another thing you might consider is to use the next larger caliber size patch to ensure there is plenty of material up around the entire circumference.

Looking closely at the .020" it almost appears to me as though the patches are borderline too small...and in the burn through spots the ball appeared to have been positioned just enough off center that it might have had only a marginal amount of material around the ball, allowing gas pressure/blowby at those burn through points...hard to say for sure from the photos.
Roundball's ML Formula:
"Whompability...Across The Fields and In The Woods"

58 Cal.
Posts: 2200
10-09-08 08:33 PM - Post#621845    

    In response to Leadbyte

I agree with the above and have one more to add...

I don't like store bought patches...I have found that I can find better bulk material avaliable...

I definately agree that your muzzle is cutting the patches as well...I went through this with my .54 and once I corrected this and went to .018 ticking, with a good lube, groups tightened...

Posts: 25659
10-09-08 08:39 PM - Post#621847    

    In response to Roundball

The black ring around the brown spot is the contact area between the ball and the bore.
All of the patches look like they had more than enough material around the black ring to indicate the ball was fully patched.

IMO, any excess material outside of that black ring only makes centering the patch less important while the ball is being started.

The thing that I see on several of the patches is a rip or tear two places diametrically opposed to each other. IMO those could have been caused by some sharp rifling grooves at the crown or possibly two sharp edges where the crown meets the bore.
Just Jim...

40 Cal.
Posts: 354
10-10-08 12:05 PM - Post#622111    

    In response to Zonie

One way to check to see if the crown is cutting the patchs is to take a 4 inch square peice of fabric and start the ball until it s flush with the muzzle. Then use the extra material to pull it back out. Use what you have a home start with the lighter material like an old t-shirt just to trie it. This at least will give you an idea if the crown/muzzle needs a little smoothing out. My new Caywood puts fine cuts around the patch so until they smooth out or I take the time to lap the bore a little I use a lubed welt wad to protect the patch with good effect. Good luck.

32 Cal.
Posts: 26
10-10-08 01:58 PM - Post#622138    

    In response to thewho66

Thanks to all, i've got a lot to think about now, unfortunately i cant shoot for the next 14 days, so if you got more things i can try please tell me, and i'll report back with the results


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