Muzzleloading Forum .....


Contact - Can't Login?
 Page 1 of 2 12
Login Name Post: Replica Arms        (Topic#224362)
Poor Private 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2064
Poor Private
08-30-08 10:43 PM - Post#607377    


I just came upon 4 pistols new in boxes by Replica Arms.
1-an 1860 army with box has all the original paperwork and the original bill of sale for $72, in 1968 They are selling it for $200.
2-1848 Walker new in box for $350.
3-1847 If I remember right it was the 3rd model dragoon, might be the 2nd. $350 also.
4-1838 Paterson for $325, new in box with a capper.
My questions are how good are Replica Arms pistols.
And are these good prices? I handled all 3 and they seem to be in excellant shape. Are parts hard to get? Anyone have any info on them?

 
Alexander L. Johnson 
45 Cal.
Posts: 955
08-31-08 12:58 AM - Post#607430    

    In response to Poor Private

I'd buy them all at that price, Replica Arms were very good quality.

 
Russ T Frizzen 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4762
08-31-08 07:54 AM - Post#607537    

    In response to Poor Private

  • Poor Private Said:
I just came upon 4 pistols new in boxes by Replica Arms.
1-an 1860 army with box has all the original paperwork and the original bill of sale for $72, in 1968 They are selling it for $200.
2-1848 Walker new in box for $350.
3-1847 If I remember right it was the 3rd model dragoon, might be the 2nd. $350 also.
4-1838 Paterson for $325, new in box with a capper.
My questions are how good are Replica Arms pistols.
And are these good prices? I handled all 3 and they seem to be in excellant shape. Are parts hard to get? Anyone have any info on them?



The 1848 should be a First Model Dragoon--possibly a Second Model.
The 1847 should be the Walker.
Check the address on each box. Where the guns were imported to makes a difference as to parts availability and sometimes to quality. If you are thinking about laying out over $ 1200 for guns from a long gone importer a little homework is in order. Somewhere on each revolver is the maker's touchmark and a mark showing the year it was made. When you have this information, let us know.



 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 26175
Zonie
08-31-08 10:47 AM - Post#607591    

    In response to Russ T Frizzen

When looking at any of these guns you see a rectangular box with letters or numbers in it the gun is Italian and the letters/numbers indicate the year the gun was proofed.

The letters PN with a star in a circle and a shield with a little star in a circle are both Italian proof marks.

An octagon with a rifled bore and a capital U in it is Uberti. (Almost always top quality).

A circle with DP in it is Pedersoli (also top quality).

A diamond with FAP in it is Pietta (usually good quality).

A circle with a DGG is Armi San Paolo (fair to good quality).

A circle with a palm tree in it is Palmetto (usually poor to fair quality).

Often the maker doesn't stamp any marks on the guns or stamps the importers name. It's difficult to know who made these guns so you have to examine them for fit and finish. That's about the only guide you will have to how well they are made.
Just Jim...



 
Alexander L. Johnson 
45 Cal.
Posts: 955
08-31-08 01:35 PM - Post#607674    

    In response to Zonie

The only Replica Arms guns I have seen have been very good quality and, if new, those prices seem more than fair. If you decide you don't want them I'll be more than happy to write the check if truly in that condition.

 
Poor Private 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2064
Poor Private
09-07-08 08:25 AM - Post#609937    

    In response to Alexander L. Johnson

Yesterday(sat) I went back to On Target in Kalamazoo Mich. I purchased the 1860 Colt army. here is the info I have on it:
Original Registration card
Original Brochure listing products
Original directions for loading and cleaning sheet
Warning tag for wedge that states "adjust wedge before firing" in bright red
Original box red with Replica Arms Inc. Marietta, Ohio on the top
Important Instruction sheet for loading, shooting, and care of Replica revolvers
4 page blue brochure on loading and shooting which also includes how to determine the ball size, and powder load. and a suggestion on joining the NMLRA.
A layaway sheet listing cost of revolver, and layaway amount and where purchased. Urich's Car and Home Supply 12911 E. Whittier Blvd. Whittier Calf. At cost of $72.76
A Gun & Reel Silicone cloth stating Custom made for Urich's
Now a bit about the revolver:
1860 Army, set up to accept the shoulder stock, case hardened, has never been fired but has stop marks on the cylinder from years of people turning it. has the Navy scene on the cylinder. All fitting are tight. Brass front blade sight.
it does have all the proof Markings that Zonie stated along with the roman numerals XXIV on the frame and barrel. The only Id is above the wedge whch says Replica Arms Inc.Marietta, Ohio Made in Italy.
No stamping that says "use black Powder only" anywhere.
S/N:A3110
I bought it for a whooping $199.99.

Edited by Poor Private on 09-07-08 08:29 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Poor Private 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2064
Poor Private
09-07-08 08:33 AM - Post#609940    

    In response to Poor Private

Here is the information on the othere 3 Replica Arms revolvers there at On Target Kalamazoo Mich.
all have original boxes and paper work. all have not been fired.
1848 2nd Dragoon S/N:1009 $329.99
1847 Walker $299.99 (didn't get S/N)
Texas Paterson S/N:869 $329.99 including capper
All are in excellaent condition

 
mykeal 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2147
mykeal
09-07-08 09:14 PM - Post#610205    

    In response to Poor Private

XXIV is 1968.

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 26175
Zonie
09-07-08 11:16 PM - Post#610244    

    In response to mykeal

1968!!!!!
Why, THATS almost an Antique of an Antique!
Just Jim...



 
Long Johns Wolf 
36 Cal.
Posts: 90
09-08-08 02:18 AM - Post#610260    

    In response to Zonie

Uberti started production of their version of the Colt 1960 in April 1963. With Colt being the first manufacturer of this model during the Civil War, the second was FAUL in Belgium who made this model from 1959 through 1973. Uberti was its 3rd manufacturer, however. Uberti's S/Ns of the 1860 began with an "A" during the 1960s. Therefore, it is fair to assume that Uberti is the manufacturer of your 1860 clone. The interesting observation here is, however, that Uberti appearantly only made bit more than 3000 specimens of the 1860 between 1963 and 1968.
Long Johns Wolf

 
Ezekial 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1180
Ezekial
09-08-08 07:53 AM - Post#610298    

    In response to mykeal

I sometimes get confused but----XXIV---from my old Latin days is---24---

 
mykeal 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2147
mykeal
09-08-08 08:00 AM - Post#610299    

    In response to Ezekial

  • Pasquenel Said:
I sometimes get confused but----XXIV---from my old Latin days is---24---



You need to translate it from the Italian to Latin first, then from Latin to English.


 
Poor Private 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2064
Poor Private
09-08-08 09:00 AM - Post#610315    

    In response to mykeal

Thanks Mykeal for the 1968 date.
I figured that out earlier with a bit of deduction.
1- the original bill of slae is dated July 20, 1968
2.-I found the XXIV with a bit of a jewelers loupe and a set of younger eyes.
3.-Someone had posted the strange procedure for dating pistols and weapons. I had to scroll down to find the 1968.
Now my next question? is there any value in the pistol (other than what I paid for it )? Since it is unfired should it be kept this way? (Boy do I have an itchy trigger finger).
Alot of current civil war weapons it is reccomended that they be defarmed. Which means removal of all that modern stampiongs on them like "Black powder use only", Caliber .44 and all the advertising of the maker and importer.
Fortunately the only marking on this pistol is the proof markings on the frame, and above the wedge. the only manf. info is very small above the wedge also. About the size of the proof markings, you need a magnifiying glass to read it.
The original reason for purchase of this pistol was: "dear, I have this civil war military pistol holster, cartride pouch and belt that is empty. There is no designated pistol for it. This 60 colt will fill it nicely."

 
Wes/Tex 
Cannon
Posts: 7787
Wes/Tex
09-08-08 11:55 PM - Post#610648    

    In response to Poor Private

Replica Arms imported some pretty good guns at the time...and they're still pretty good now. The 44's will have a smaller cylinder diameter than most current imports. Think most took .451" balls if memory serves! There were actually 4 different Paterson revolvers imported with barrels from 4" to 12" which is interesting. They're well made guns and the price is fair by today's standards.

 
mykeal 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2147
mykeal
09-09-08 07:01 AM - Post#610679    

    In response to Poor Private

In the marketplace the gun is worth pretty much what you paid. It's age does not command a premium yet. However, check with the Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association (RPRCA). They should be able to say for sure.

Defarbing a replica revolver is, in my opinion, an act of deceit. The reenactors often require it because they somehow want to believe that everything everyone uses in the reenactment is truly authentic hardware. So, they require one to intentionally deface the gun by removing any marks that show it's a replica and then pretending that it's not. In the world of antique collecting this is called fraud, but the reenactors say that the since the intent is not to falsely market the guns, it's ok to do it. As if that's never been done. Again, just my opinion. Perhaps I'm too anal.

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 26175
Zonie
09-09-08 06:35 PM - Post#610856    

    In response to mykeal

IMO, organizations that would require the removal of barrel/frame markings are the ones who are being anal.

When I 'aged' my Confederate revolver I intentionally left all of the Italian proof marks and the "Made in Italy" that was on the barrel in place so that some future buyer would know it was not an original.

Just Jim...



 
T.C. Albert 
40 Cal.
Posts: 220
09-09-08 09:41 PM - Post#610959    

    In response to Zonie

Is the Paterson capper embossed with the running deer as the originals were for the "Patent Arms" Patersons? I think it could be worth nearly the asking price of the pistol alone. Just an unembossed Paterson styled capper from someplace like VTI or Dixie is pretty expensive, and the embossed ones that Replica Arms initially made with the Patersons are all but unobtainable...at least I havent been able to find one. I think Colt had drawings and patents for the capper and the charger that went with the Paterson pistols, and eventually for the loading tool as well. (Early Patersons had no loading tool, but the spindle itself was cupped to allow it to be used for seating a ball in the cylinder.Eventually a few Patersons were made with the "new" attached loading lever, but like with the early Walkers, recoil often dislodged the lever from its weak spring holder allowing the lever to plunge into the cylander effectively jamming the gun at least until the lever was fumbled with and the gun recocked.)

$329 for an unfired and early Replica Arms Paterson with capper sems very reasonable, but I think keeping it unfired would be the best way to keep its value at this point, or so I have been advised.
T.Albert

Edited by T.C. Albert on 09-09-08 09:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Alexander L. Johnson 
45 Cal.
Posts: 955
09-09-08 09:44 PM - Post#610960    

    In response to mykeal

There are some people that just find the crappy finish and Italian markings to be an eyesore on what could otherwise be an attractive gun. Though I suppose that there are some people who could be fooled by this process, the lack of the correct markings and many other differences would generally be a dead giveaway to any but the most novice collector. I don't think the process is fraud unless you carry it to the extreme.

 
mykeal 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2147
mykeal
09-10-08 06:04 AM - Post#611033    

    In response to Alexander L. Johnson

  • Alexander L. Johnson Said:
There are some people that just find the crappy finish and Italian markings to be an eyesore on what could otherwise be an attractive gun. Though I suppose that there are some people who could be fooled by this process, the lack of the correct markings and many other differences would generally be a dead giveaway to any but the most novice collector. I don't think the process is fraud unless you carry it to the extreme.



Intentionally misrepresenting the item being sold is fraud. The culpability of the purchaser is not a factor in that definition. Caveat emptor is honorable only insofar as the seller does not intentionally lie about the goods, and defarbing is intentionally misrepresenting the guns as authentic. Giving it the old, 'wink-wink' and describing the seller as stupid or novice, and therefore somehow deserving of being duped, does not excuse the act.


 
Poor Private 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2064
Poor Private
09-10-08 03:03 PM - Post#611226    

    In response to mykeal

I understand the theory behind Defarbing a gun wether it be pistol or long arm. In my many years of experience in civil war reenacting I have never ever seen any enfield or springfield or any variation of long arm or hand gun being misrepresented as such. Mykeal you sound like a person that has been burnt by an unsrupulous seller/collector.
The more authentic side of reeenacting are trying to be as period correct as possible, including getting lice(just kidding). These guys will spend $500 just to have thier muskets defarbed, the only consession is that the s/n and the manuf. are hidden, but are still there.
It's is no different than someone in the F&I, or Mt. Man, voyager doing the same to thier flinters.

Edited by Poor Private on 09-10-08 03:04 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Zonie 
Moderator
Posts: 26175
Zonie
09-10-08 03:37 PM - Post#611241    

    In response to Poor Private

"...including getting lice..." and the dysentery that killed more men than all of the bullets put together.
Just Jim...



 
Poor Private 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2064
Poor Private
09-10-08 05:49 PM - Post#611289    

    In response to Zonie

Isn't it interesting the twists and turns that a forum topic will take. Just like sitting around the kitchen table at home.

 
Poor Private 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2064
Poor Private
09-10-08 05:51 PM - Post#611291    

    In response to Poor Private

T.C.,
Sorry I didn't atake a closer look at the patterson. The paterson was on a shelf without the box and capper. I wasn't too interested in it since I already have one. And yes a replica capper is dang expensive, I been try to put a cased set together a bit at a time.

 
mykeal 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2147
mykeal
09-10-08 08:56 PM - Post#611375    

    In response to Poor Private

I have never personally been 'burnt'. I have had the supreme joy of telling others that they have been.

I understand the motive behind defarbing a gun to cheat someone; it's called greed. I do not understand the motive behind defarbing a gun just to be able to pretend it's something it's not.

 
Alexander L. Johnson 
45 Cal.
Posts: 955
09-10-08 09:13 PM - Post#611385    

    In response to mykeal

I have an 1858 Pietta sitting in my bench vise right now. The gun had been picked up by a friend and was badly abused by the previous owner. Though the gun isn't worth it, it does belong to a good friend with limited means so I agreed to do some work on it. I have agreed to refinish the pistol with a rust blue and color case harden the hammer and trigger using the bone and charcoal process. Since I am going through all this work I could not really see leaving the markings on the barrel since the flats weren't true to begin with. I'll be damned if I am going to file them off and have them put on again. There will be no markings on the outside of the gun when I am finished (and I won't make any attempt to duplicate original marks) and it will be better finished than any other factory made 1858 replica gun available today and probably on par with the originals when it is done. To my friend it will be a nice shooter and something that he can afford to own. If at some point it passes through his hands and winds up with a collector who takes it for an original so be it, that person obviouslly should stick to golf and not be messing around in a field that they don't understand. As far as I am concerned the laws of Darwin apply.

Edited by Alexander L. Johnson on 09-10-08 09:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
 Page 1 of 2 12
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Print Topic


1777 Views
Welcome Guest...
Enter your Login Name and password to login. If you do not have a username you can register one here

Login Name

Password

Remember me. Help



Login Not Working?...

Registered Members
Total: 31902
Todays
Birthdays
There are no birthdays today
Current Quote
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
~ Sir Winston Churchill

PRIVACY POLICY
FusionBB™ Version 3.0 FINAL | ©2003-2010 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.126 seconds.   Total Queries: 92  
All times are (GMT-5). Current time is 09:11 AM
Top